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Old 07-14-2010, 11:37 AM   #49
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
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Re: Yonkyo is unbearable

Quote:
Daniel Coutts-Smith wrote: View Post
Hey fellow Aikidoka,

Every time i take Ukemi for Yonkyo the pain is unbearable... most techniques you can relax and feel the pain and tap before its too much, but Yonkyo the pain is so sudden and sharp that i clench up and can barely tap.

I have heard that it should be used almost as an atemi, i can see how it would be effective as such.

Anyway my questions are:
Do you think i will begin to build up a tolerance to it?
Was it this bad for everyone when they first started to take ukemi for it, or am i just very susceptible?

Arigato Goziamasu in advance,
Daniel.
To answer the question now directly with my opinion. The question was, there is pain while taking ukemi and is unbearable. Based on all the background information I provided I would say, assuming the pain is not from hitting the ground. That is falling is painless it is hitting the ground that hurts. Rather the mechanics of the technique make it painful. Yonkyo's original design was to damage the enemy's body to prevent counters and to defeat the enemy. Allot of that pain may have to do with the way you fall, how your body is aligned during the fall.

The other thing is there is so many variations on Yonkyo. I seen it done with only one hand and called Yonkyo as an example. Because we can't see Daniel as uke like on a vid, we don't really know enough accurately help. He could be taking ukemi late, or off-line resulting in excessive pain for him. This is along Naill's point that we are synced in. That moving away from the technique in such a way will cause pain. For me it increases the pain, which was calculated in the original design of Yonkyo to happen. The jujitsu originator(s) I think understood, from experience, humans naturally, unless otherwise trained, move away from the source of pain.

Thereby, they designed the waza based on that information. You try to escape or resist and your more screwed than if you don't. That is you fall away from the waza in such a way it increase the pain. Proper Yonkyo is painful in any direction if you try to resist or escape. I am not saying Yonkyo can't fail. Am speaking design theory and how that relates to pain.

I would guess Daniel's unbearable pain is resulting from how he taking ukemi that works to the benefit of the purpose of the waza as a jujitsu result. That is the increased pain may be do to the manner in which he is taking ukemi.

I would also think the Shi is either doing the waza very well or very poorly. Again we don't know that information. Therefore, I would say in the context of all I have said, that as time goes on, and so does the pain, Daniel will take ukemi in such a way that will elevate some of the pain to a point where it is bearable under both said conditions. It just shows how important ukemi is to Aikido.
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