Thread: Is there more?
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Old 11-26-2005, 07:52 PM   #18
Mat Hill
Dojo: Kaminari Shooto Dojo
Location: Tokyo
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 48
England
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Re: Is there more?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
This is a completly simplistic interpretation of aiki. Aiki is value nuetral. It is the way you move the opponent's mind in order to effect him physically. It has nothing to do with "harmonizing" in the sense of giving way. I can use aiki to to step in and strike you down with one blow. I can use it so that the instant we touch I have your center.
Obviously apart from the first sentence (which is incidentally what I was accusing aiki-fruities of!) I am in complete agreement with this too. I was saying it doesn't mean to give way! I was saying it was value neutral! And again, I didn't want to be too drawn off into the more metaphysical side when we were talking about the teaching of physical principles as a response to overloading our learning of techniques. The post you are quoting is largely in response to Ted Ehara.
Quote:
Actually this is also completely not true. The fact that the majority of the mixed martial arts guys are hunks who can bench press ridiculous weights
Not true in my dojo or experience...
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and take more punishment than any man
True... which may be an important point when dealing with a martial art!
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should be able to distracts people from what is really there when you look at someone really skilled.
1) I'm not easily distracted. In fact I don't really pay that much attention to who I'm fighting until I have that connection to the centre; ie I like to go in with an empty cup.

2) Are you saying that the MMA people are not 'really skilled'? My MMA teacher could teach most aiki people I've met a lot about softness and centre to centre connection. It really is, as the old BJJ expression goes, 'Like being mugged by a straightjacket!'.

3) You seem to be wanting to put me in an MMA box; to concentrate on the differences. I'm all about finding common points and getting out of boxes! I was and am TMA first and foremost. Namely aiki, then wing chun. But as you said with the Systema guys, there is a lot of crossover with a lot of arts which was kind of the point with this thread, no!? And I agree completely with you about Systema, but the important point is they train completely differently to most aikidoists! Their way of learning to blend with a punch from the start is to receive and give some very very hard punches; to learn the mechanics of punching and how being punch affects your own body mechanics and equilibrium... and yet it's perfect aiki!
Quote:
In Aikido most people don't do much grappling...We simply don't focus on them.
Again, I was aware of your next list of facts and agree completely, but again, I don't see it as really relevant: the original question was including shouldn't we include some of these aspects into our own practice, and if we take your previous passage as you answer you are saying 'We don't practice these things because there is no historical basis for doing so in aiki, so we won't practice these things...' which is a perfectly circular arguement! The strategy of not goign to ground in a fight is good, but again irrelevant: there are important things to learn by starting your aiki session in a state of complete unbalance are there not?... it's the old chestnut of anyone can reach enlightenment in the mountains but what happens when you go to the city.
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If you want to see ground fighting done with aiki...
Not especially! I want to see aiki kihon exercised effectively: which includes more henka and kaeshi waza as you progress on the path. Which means a good knowledge of how to use basic aiki principles to prevent ikkyou osae going on or to get out of it when it's applied, for example!
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Vladimir Vasiliyev ...can "breathe" you off him. The principles of aiki are Universal principles, they apply everywhere. But that doesn't mean that our practice focuses on this aspect of application. The Systema guys use exactly the same principles and they do work alot on ground fighting.
I've played with Systema guys here who've a lot of experience with Vladimir and again I agree. But the Systema principle of breathing seems to be exactly what O'Sensei was driving at looking at his poems and listening to first generation students... and was maybe lost in transmission. Regardless of Sytema's inclusion of groundwork into their curriculum, is it not laudable and highly relevant to look at these methods in relation to our aiki?
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