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Old 08-15-2012, 07:21 PM   #94
Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
Re: ki testing...emphasis on both uke and nage getting stronger

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I would agree completely.
Naturally your admonition of playing the edges after making a success of something is admirable. As one person just reminded me on the phone....we have never seen an Aikido teacher-to include over a dozen shihan- be capable of surviving or successfully pulling off our first warm up exercise, much less any real stress. That brings us back to the OP and this notion of Uke/ nage getting stronger.
Since 1,100 of us have never seen a shihan 6th dan or 52 go dans succeed...I was wondering just what the heck the OP meant?
I have seen the videos of many of these ki people, so I know how weak these people are-hence the ki wars, so I was asking what this notion of stronger really meant?
Add to that stronger against who?
Stronger for what?
Some chose to be presumptuous and assume I meant MMA. Fighting was not my point, but rather serious stress testing.
But again, as was pointed out to me, we have never seen any of these people pull off even a minor exercise we do, so I am not talking about going to even our medium level testing, much less advance work or actually knowing how to fight with it.
So again who is getting stronger with what?
Against who?
Doing what?

Our model
Start cooperatively
Gradually raise the bar
reach a point of sustaining yourself against solid muscular force
start over
Soft power to soft power, learn to change the change with aiki. If your ki is weaker you lose.
Pressurize with grappling /MMA until you can fight with it freely.
Thank you Dan, I appreciate you taking the time to come back and outline what you meant in more specific terms. I'll answer:

Stronger? Trying to get stronger at using internal strength and by way of that, better at aikido. I didn't say just stronger, but better, because that sensitivity to what the other person is doing is as much aikido as pure strength is, but it uses all the same components. Relaxed connection in me, to the ground, held together with breath and ki and moved at the middle and with intent. You know, all the buzzwords! but working with people who are better than me to the point that I feel comfortable using them and knowing I have some real, felt grasp of them.

how? Various exercises and by getting together with people who are better than me, stronger. Mostly outside of aikido, lots of pushing, pulling, moving with various resistances and trying to keep all of the above things going and together against as much as you can take, paired and solo.

I do feel I get some decent practice out of aikido classes too. Everything there is really designed for my above goals, so it's not too hard, but it is definitely different because of how people respond and we're a style that makes you work and doesn't go through the motions. Even with that, it's still a different kind of resistance, not perfect, but I'm no powerhouse so it's all still good practice for where I'm at. I've got some people there who are interested in this stuff as well so they'll make me work even harder. Even on the uke side there's enough interesting things you can do to make yourself hard to move and actively use the condition and skills to make other people work harder, attacking their center, using the connection to resist, etc, all subtly. That's how I think the art is supposed to be and the progression of skill, but it takes multiple people with some level of those skills and the desire to really build them.

i don't think our progression or what we're working towards is any different, but I only speak for me. . I'd love to know what you're first warmup is, but I won't ask because I know you won't answer. You said fall right?