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Old 05-21-2006, 11:48 AM   #304
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: The "Jo Trick" and Similar Exercises

Quote:
Ted Ehara wrote:
I've mentioned this before but only in passing. This is all psychological, or more accurately applied psychology. There have been no objective detection of energy pathways that approximate the meridians used in traditional chinese medicine (TCM).

Energy levels within the human body has shown to be relatively weak compared to mechanical or natural sources. It is unlikely that an individual can utilize these levels to overtly affect the world. Various people have tried to promote systems similar to Prana/Chi/Qi/Ki in the west, but they were constantly rejected because of the lack of objective findings.
I was talking about force paths, Ted, so "energy pathways" is another discussion entirely (although there is some recent research showing that many 'acupuncture points' are related to overlapping fascial layers, if you're interested in that sort of thing). I'm saing that in any "ki test", if someone applies a force and and the testee is able to 'resist' that force, the phenomenon can immediately be described by static analysis of the forces involved. So despite anyone's personal "take" on whether it is psychology, the "Ki of the Universe", the relation of the "One Point" to "All Things", or whatever, we can begin any meaningful discussion and analysis just by looking at the forces involved, wouldn't you agree? Or do you think that "ki" phenomena defy analysis?
Quote:
The people who practice these internal arts are amazingly average. There doesn't seem to be any physical differences between an internal arts master and the ordinary joe. However if the potential of the internal arts were only available to few, why would most people want to study it?
I dunno, Ted.... the difference between Andres Segovia and the ordinary joe didn't seem like much, but Segovia could play a mean guitar. Who'd a thunk it? What could be the difference between Segovia and ordinary people? Could it be that he trained assiduously at playing the guitar? I.e., knowing how to do these things and training them is the key element, IMO. Unless you're ascribing obtaining "ki powers" to something like the Holy Ghost entering your body?
Quote:
Internal training is not really training; it is untraining. How many times have you messed up a technique because your consciousness got in the way? You're trying to develop pure movement that comes from mind/body coordination without any interpretation by individual consciousness.
OK.... to me you're saying that the reason Segovia was so good at the guitar was that he was so relaxed when playing. I could agree with that, but I'd have to point out that first he had to learn to play the guitar. Same way with ki-skills and doing fune-kogi-undo and other Aiki-Taiso, Ted.... if all it was had to do with "getting your consciousness out of the way", it would be pointless to practice anything to do with Aikido.
Quote:
Perhaps the real question is not how Morihei Ueshiba was able to do his ki demonstration with the jo, but why everyone else can't do. it.
Maybe other people (a.) don't know how to train "ki", (b.) don't work out daily like Ueshiba did (he didn't just go unconscious and gain his skills), and (c.) they don't practice, practice, practice????

Regards,

Mike
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