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Old 08-18-2012, 08:06 AM   #10
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Re: Ueshiba's Aikido?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Graham, it is well established here on AIkiweb that there are a few different perspectives on aikido. Correct me if I am wrong, but your perspective is that the physical/internal training aspects, simply serve as an allegory in order to realize the spritual lessons of the leader and serve as a path to enlightment.

Another perspective, held by others, in this case, Mark Murray believes that there were very specific physical or internal aspects to training and out of that practice, which is very physical in the stance of focusing on body, that you will realize the benefits of the whole...mind, body, and spirit. That is, that through focusing not on the spirituality specifically, but very specific physical practices.

So, that is well established.

As far as I know, Mark is the only one that specifically emphasizes the use of the term Ueshiba Aikido., with maybe the exception of Dan, I can't recall....if Dan has ever called it that. So, you know this. I know you know this...so essentially by bring this point up in another thread as you have...it is essentially what I call a TROLL argument.

That may not be your intent, I don't know, but I fail to see what benefit will come out of framing a thread in this manner.

Now, I have no issue with discussing the actual issues in differences of methodology, but if that were the intent, you hypothesis and thesis would be stated in a much different way such as:

"I do not believe that internal training methodologies as Mark Murray's "Ueshiba Aikido" is the only practice that can lead to enlightenment by practicing on solo training exercises...for the following reasons.........

I believe that a practice of aikido in X method can also lead to this and here are the reasons why......

Or something along those lines.

Having a discussion simply over the use of the word/phrase Ueshiba Aikido (tm)....I really fail to see how this leads to any deep discussion on the subject that anyone would learn anything from. It is simply an inflamed discussion that will never get beyond the surface of the emotions of the various "camps" within the aikido community.

On the issue of insult.

I don't believe I insulted you at all. I simply do not agree with your post and believe the intent of it is to troll.

an insult would be directed at you personally such as "you suck", or I think calling what you do in aikido is completely stupid.

Or I think the fact that your use of the word Aikido in what you do is completely "non-sensical". What purpose would that serve? Does it make you stop doing what you are doing? Does it serve to change what I am doing? or does it simply drive people to irrational emotional areas that we are supposed to be trying to move them away from?

I tell you Graham, I would really love to have deeper discussions on Aikiweb on various subjects. I am always interested to hear how through various methods we can enlighten people and move them to a better place. How we can realize peace and harmony.

I fail to see how continuing to focus on the superficial differences in Aikido move us to a deeper understanding at all.

So do you see why I think this is trolling? I might expect this kinda question out of a newbie, but someone that has been here for a while and been involved in the community with the experience that you have...well I expect a deeper discourse of discussoin.
Hi Kevin.
You told me I was referring to Mark and basically trying to cause trouble and also advised people not to contribute. This I call insulting yet I think it's due to missing the point having read your reasoning.

I have just read the post you mention and don't see ueshiba's Aikido but do see plenty of Ueshiba's Aiki.

I had quickly scanned the thread and hadn't been too interested in it but did notice the continued use of the term Ueshiba's Aiki and that usage, reminding me of many usages by those doing Dan's 'Aiki' or methology.

So I am talking about using the word Ueshiba's. Can you give me a reason why anyone should use it as a prefix or description?

I do Ueshiba's Ki, I use Ueshiba's Bu, I emphasize Ueshiba's Ai. Would you not find that a bit odd if I kept on with saying that? Labeling it that? It would be demeaning, it would be inferring other's don't or what they are doing is not.

So here's the thing. 1)We do Ueshiba's Aiki
2)We do Aikido with emphasis on internal strength.

Which one would actually lead to interested debate and enquiry without any demeaning overtures?

All Labels used 'innocently' to describe own or others Aikido that demean others Aikido are not conducive to open discussion and are thus destructive. 'modern aikido' is a label used in such a way and has the same effect.

So actually if you would like to have deeper discussions then note the purpose and point of this thread. Don't use such labels.

Now I think you will understand this point, at least I hope so, for I believe it is not noted as a thread destroyer.

As is requested by the way, if a person sees something they would like to bring up but would take the thread off topic then they should start a new thread to express their view or debate the point.

Peace.G.
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