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Old 07-15-2011, 05:44 AM   #58
Sacha Cloetens
Dojo: Ban Sen Juku Leuven - Masakatsu Dojo
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15
Re: Non-Aikido thoughts and considerations

Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Soke of what?
Doesn't it take a Soke to pass on an art?
Sokaku was not the soke by his own admission.
The only Soke of anything was Tokimune; who invented Daito ryu Aiki budo and called himself soke of that. He himself differentiates in some detail that the two arts are not the same
He awarded everyone (Kondo included) ranks in Aikibudo. Then he dies and somewhere in between awards Kondo Menkyo in Daito ryu aikijujutsu A menkyo award is stuffed out of place in between detailed and dated entries in the eimoroku after Tokimunes death (everyone is told Tokimune knew people would feel bad so he hid this award.

Then Kondo forbids his seniors in the art of Aikibudo use of the name Daito ryu.

1. So who is or was Soke of what?
Aikibudo or Aikijujutsu

2. Who is or was Menkyo in what?
Aikibudo or Aikijujutsu
AIkiudo and Aikijujutsu
Where are those concurrent awarded ranks?

If one is Menkyo in Aikijujustsu, how does it apply any authority to aikibudo? An art your own teacher states had a different curriculum.
Even weirder, people trained for 35 yrs...become the reps, become president and treasurer of the organization and give embu all over Japan in front of and for Tokimune and all is well.
Then a part timer shows up with a lot of money...everyone is told he got the real art. They are told.."Naw...I never taught you..I lied to your face." by their teacher. Have a nice life!
Realize of course that all of this has in detail as well and tokimune told people he only taught Kondo.
He dies, a menkyo is awarded, recorded, what have you, the art is trademarked against others using it...and the former president, and treasurer, and senior students are out and prevented from using the name of the art they were ranked in and presented to Japan for most of their adult lives, Now you have threats of legal action! Potential law suits in traditional budo? Thank goodness this isn't the old days, I'm surprised no one has gotten violent. Then again who do you go after...teacher, or student?
All of this has been explained you understand. all neat and tidy like.
I've read and re read all of the stuff for years and talked with teachers and various insiders and authors. The only thing consistent about the art is how inconsistent it is, how it is traditionally so untraditional. Start to finish, a damn curious and weird Japanese art.
Anyone blame Ueshiba for running for the hills?
Hello Dan,

Just for the sake of controversy.

Any thoughts / comments on this Video?

According to the text going with it, Tokimune would have stated otherwise himself. - ? -
I don't speak Japanese , so I don't have a clue about what is actually beeing said,& if the text is accurate & a faithfull transcript.

Care to comment ?


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