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Old 01-14-2008, 02:15 AM   #109
Daniel Ranger-Holt
Location: Luton
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 37
United Kingdom
Re: I'm Leaving Aikido

Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
The idea of aikido is not "he punches me, I respond with shiho-nage", but rather "through shiho-nage, I learn how to manipulate this shape of energy coming at me." To be sure, there are many in aikido who don't quite understand this distinction.
Yeah, the more i think about this post and my Aikido in general i think perhaps i just never grasped it well enough. I approached Aikido in a very "i want to learn street self defence" way. And even though i understood the centre point, speheres, etc etc. I think it just deviated away too much from what i wanted to learn which is quite simply..."i'm attacked, what do i do" energy and shapes and dynamic spheres, ki energy, slicing with wooden swords. I sadly don't think i ever really saw how this applies in a real life situation.

On the mat you can demonstrate perfect centre point, and downward spirals etc but i found in the mess of the street it's just not real. So yeh, i didn't understand the distinction, and don't have time to spend another two years learning about circles and energy. I want to protect myself.
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
The OP would do well to re-read Kevin L.'s post #60 and Mark M.'s post #63.
Imho if one truly wants to leave anything then they just leave, there is no need to let anyone else know. Imho those who make an issue of it and announce their leaving are actually looking for a reason not to, i.e. they are looking for a reaction from someone to tell them that there may be another option to leaving.
I think the point of this thread is not about leaving Aikido at all, but about attempting to warn people that many Aikido dojo do not provide what they say with regard to usable real world skills. I agree totally with this.
I still think that the OP went to an Aikido dojo in an attempt to get bouncer training.
I announced i was leaving to see if any others had the same feelings as i, and to almost help me as to if i was making the right choice. I'm not stubborn enough to disregard opinions of those who have had much more expierience than me. Of course i want to find other options rather then leaving, i spent two years three times a week. Wouldn't you want to seek other peoples opinions, who have more expirience than yourself before leaving a martial art??

The posts have been great, some people agreeing with me. Of course i know many people see Aikido as more than a form of self defence and almost a religion or something. I don't, but i'm aware some people would have got offended. Look, my actual name is up here, if i intentionally wanted to upset people i wouldn't have posted it on the biggest Aikido forum on the internet. I'm just saying what i felt.

As for the point of my thread, you got it right, the Aikido i have been taught, and the Aikido i have seen. Including countless videos, is not the art for me. It's great self defence when your being attacked on the mat...but i find the Aikido i have seen. (Thousands of videos of dojos all around the world online, about 15 dvd's and Casettes) wouldn't work for real. Unless, im finding now, it's drastically different, or other martial art techniques are blended in with that Aikido.

Of course many people say "at our dojo we train FOR REAL our techniques work" then that's fine, but then it becomes less about Aikido and much more specific to the instructor who is teaching that Aikido and it Aikido?? It's a lot more easier to find something that does what it says on the tin, then hunting down rare dojos who actually teach the kind of Aikido i would be looking for. If it's anything close to what i've been taught or seen, then it's not for me.

Also harry i have never seen a real punch ever neatrilised by a shinage or yonko etc, ever. And i've watcher a lot of Aikido. Is this traditional Aikido you train in? or something else. If it is traditional Aikido, then i guess i have been trained wrong. Personally, ive watched a LOT of aikido, and i belive it's as simple as the aikido. It's just not nice to admit it. Took me a while to.

And no i didnt start aikido to learn bouncer protection. I decided to become a bouncer about a year and half in. I learned Aikido because something happened for me to want to protect myself. Obviously the job came along and then i thought it would be suited for Aikido. But found personally it wasn't.
Craig Hocker wrote: View Post
Having a few simple skills and strategies and working on getting them down in an uncooperative environment in a few months is realistic working with those that have the same career need. Walking in to a traditional martial arts school which has so many other goals and students with probably even more reasons and goals, I really can't understand why it took two years for the OP to figure this out that the training wasn't what would fit the bill. Why he thinks another school built on cobbling together various traditional martial art moves is going to fit the bill either is beyond me. Yes punch and kicking is easier to pantomime and feel like you doing something. NOT a big revelation.
Are you just being plain rude or is this some kind of friendly sarcasm?? Regardless i will respond and assume it's friendly sarcasm as we're all adults here. Yeah, as i said previously, the best tool in being a doorman is humbling yourself. The amount of times ive been asked if i want a fight and will every single time reply "no of course not" or something similar, it works for the most part, simply humbling yourself. But occasionally people dont ask if you want a fight, they just fly in with a headbutt or a quick jab...and that's where MY aikido let me down. It took me two years to figure it wasn't for me because i was partially in denial, i was stubborn and didnt want to leave, and because i was told it will come with time. And it did in a way, but, not quick enough i guess.
Don't feel intimidated or angry against another another "art" if you're talking about Krav it's not my religion or my life, if i get bored or want to move on i will take what it gave me and move on. It's just damn good fun, and enjoyable at the moment. Barely a few months of lessons and my confidence has gone right up, as opposed to the unsure haze of Aikido i and other people have. And that was after two years. Krav isn't pretty and yea it's cobbled together moves from other martial arts, it's not even called a martial art because it's not meant to be. It's self defence. No belts or ranks. But the training is real speed, reactions are built up, something i never ever got from aikido in two YEARS and it's just better suited for me. Don't be mad about it my friend. TRY IT!

"Honestly, you sound as foolish as someone who expects to be able to write a novel because they learned how to spell and then finding disappointment, they decide the solution is to learn how to spell in another language."

Ok so you was beign rude earlier. But regardless, that...above? was awful. Do you even know what you meant writing that?? Say "no Daniel". Bow your head, and stop being silly. Let's strip it down. You're just upset someone disagree's with you about Aikido. Look at how the other people have posted. They might not agree with me, but at least they disagree with some decorum. My goodness sir, shocking. *shakes head*
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
So, I can relate to finding an art that isn't workging out, though I can also allow that it depends what you put into it. But, I do welcome OP to continue posting here. I think it's helpful here to hear all perspectives of people that practice aikido. If everyone agreed about everything and didn't question anything, it would get dull pretty quickly . . .
^^ There we go Mr hocker.
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
A few questions I have, you do not have to answer if you do not care to. Why do you want to be a "Bouncer" ?
Because the money is very very good for a short amount of hours. Freeing up my days to spend more time with my daughter and to persue my hobbies and music. Nothing more. Plus i got tired of 9 years behind a desk and wanted something completely different.
Why do you train at a church-based Aikido club and want to be Bouncer in a bar?
Church based has nothing to do with it, it's just the hall they hire out my friend. As to the rest of this question, please refer to my answer above.
Your Sensei ,according to the website, does not have any experience in this type of occupation, why did you choose this dojo?
Because it was the closest one to me. I rang, explained i wanted to learn self defence for the street and went from there. I want to clarfiy again, this is not to do with how i was taught, i think its to do with Aikido in general. I accept there are offshoots and some dojos who teach a different kind of Aikido than the one everyone else has seen and been taught. I know this now. But in general, it was just the Aikido, not the Teacher.
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Matthew wrote:
The dynamics of how we train in aikido, while principally sound, do not carry over as a direct dynamic of reality. This is why you find guys like me that study aikido for many years, then proceed to go out and get their ass handed to them by someone that could careless how long you studied aikido, or how you do a proper iriminage!
There are those out there that can demonstrate aikido principles in non-compliance..the problem is, it ends up looking like other stuff, and it the teaching point of aikido gets why bother?
Isn't this what i've been trying to say to people? and you're last point is spot on too.
Michael Quinn wrote: View Post
Aiki training has weaknesses , such as constant emphasis on wrist grabs, compliance etc. Hoever, its strengths are tai sabaki body movement, trying to turn your opponent, ukemi, multiple attack randori, defence against knives, attacking the attack with you entry movement etc. The video supplied reinforces in my eyes aiki has answers to all those attacks. Away from Aiki, you can look at Geoff Thompson of the BCA, who teaches everything from fear control, to all out training, but even he and his peers will always return to traditional for the core principles. Cross training may be your answer, for punching as your back-up, or kicking or groundwork, but again i would keep Aiki as your core style. My own plans are to return to Aikido myself. Cheers!.
Really good post, funnily enough many students at the Krav Class said to me i will find some similarities in Aikido to Krav with some of the locks and holds, and i wouldn't have wasted my time in aiki. No one seemed to have a bad word to say against it. But still understood my reasons for leaving. Some of the techniques looked similar to Aikido except it was all done at full speed and less fiddly, and the point. Takedown, done. Maybe in the future i will return to Aikido, who knows. But not for the moment, until i feel like i am confident i can protect myself. Then perhaps go back to Aikido as you did to learn body basics etc.
Peter Ralls wrote: View Post
if you want your aikido to be more effective, you have to try and train realistically. If your dojo does everything slow motion, it's going to be hard to get much realism there. I am a big believer that if one martial art doesn't meet your needs or make you happy, go find another one. So I fully support your desire to go try different martial arts, I think that is a very good idea. But if you decide you want to come back to aikido, I would suggest finding a dojo where they train faster and more realistically. There are dojos out there that do. And last of all, my opinion is that the only way to make your martial art practise truly realistic is to actually use it in real life and learn for yourself what works and doesn't. It seems to me that you are already well along the way there. Good luck in your training.
Twenty four years?? lets be honest, if you're telling me Aikido works, then i'm no one to disagree. That's a long time, and ten times more dangerous than my job. It is interesting however that you note some judo techniques have needed to be used, and sweeps and such. None of which are studied in Aikido. So once again suggesting Aikido by itself (what i was studying) isn't enough. But...i have read your post and took in your words. Thanks for taking the time to write that.
Clark Bateman wrote: View Post
You will never know this until you are in a fight... The mental and physical conditions (both the positive and the negative) that occur in a fight (not to mention the stakes) are impossible to faithfully reproduce in the dojo. You can train to be prepared, and that makes good sense, but only being is truly knowing...
Exactly, i hadn't had a fight (cept as a kid) until i started doorwork of course, and this is what promted me to post and change my "martial art" This is what im saying. So many people claiming this and that, but how many of them have really been in a fight or a scuffle on the floor or had someone fly at them. Its just so so so different to spending time on the mat in a Dojo bowing, it really is. That's why when the Police, or Army peoples post here i really do sit up and take notice. As who would know better about real life situations? No offence, i would feel more comfortable alongside them, then some fat old Aikido whos been plodding about for 20 years bowing on a mat. (I'm podgy myself, i can say that)
Saji Jamakin wrote: View Post
I've never had that problem. I am total Aikido. No additives, no supplements, no preservatives. I insist that I learn all my self-defense the aikido way and have been very satisfied.
Perhaps it's because I only have experience with Shodokan, (Tomiki), Aikido.
In my dojo within the first 3 weeks I was thrown into multiple attackers, free style, tanto randori. (That means alternating attacks with fake knives by two attackers for those of you who are unsure). The free style ment any attack was valid -- slashing, overhand stabs, underhand stabs, angles, etc. I did okay. Yes I got stabbed a coulple of the intial attack or by the other attacker when I had successfully subdued the initial attacker. (Very Hhumbling)..
The point is and the point my instructor was trying to make is that my aikido needs to be tested at as near full speed uke and I could safely get.
This sounds like the Dojo i should have walked into. If it was, i'd probably still be there now. Is this style of Aikido what some people refer to as the "sport" aikido? sorry if i sound dumb on this, i know nothing of it. Someone else suggested this to me as well. I may have a peek at that as well in the future.
William Oakes wrote: View Post
Aikido has such a high attrition rate something like 9 out of 10 quit in 1 st year. It is no of surprise that threads like this get created..
The time i was there i lost count of the amount of people who came and went, seriously. Although i'm not sure how many other martial arts this applies to. But, some are local people i speak to and they explain their reasons for leaving, and they are the same as mine, except they were sensible enough to leave early. Where i plodded on, stubbornly. Once guy said "to much philosophy, sticks and wrist grabs i just want to stop someone taking a swing at me" He does Krav now.

Just to end it, Here is something important i feel. I would rather take on an opponent who is insisting on a fight, with my few months of Krav training right now, then i ever would with my Two Years of Aikido. And i really am sorry to say that, but it's my expierience. It's not even about the Krav, change krav to Boxing, Muay Thai, Tae Kwondo etc. It's just the Aikido...or zzz my aikido. Not saying i would defeat this oppenent, chances are i wouldn't but i can guarantee personally i'd have a damn better chance then i would waiting around to throw a wrist lock or Iriminage on the guy.

Cheers...sorry bout the long post. I dont get as much internet time as i'd like. And thanks guys for the discussion.

Last edited by Daniel Ranger-Holt : 01-14-2008 at 02:20 AM.
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