View Single Post
Old 05-26-2008, 03:32 AM   #13
Josh Reyer
 
Josh Reyer's Avatar
Location: Aichi-ken, Nagoya-shi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 644
Japan
Offline
Re: Counting to 10 in Japanese (Inconsistent)

I'm afraid Professor Goldsbury has mistakenly switched the Chinese and Japanese methods of counting in Japanese. "Ichi, ni, san, etc." comes from Chinese pronunciation, while "Hitotsu, futatsu, mittsu, etc." is the native Japanese one.

Why does "ichi" become "ich(i)"? There are some phonological reasons, but first, try saying the word "seven". Notice that you have two distinct syllables, of roughly equal length (although the first syllable will be weighted with stress). Now, do 10 fast push-ups, counting outloud. Most likely, in that situation, the full "seven" will become a one syllable "sevn", to save time and breath, and to keep in the rhythm of the exercise. That's the same effect happening here. When counting fast and rhythmically, words get shortened.

Now, why does ichi specifically become ich'? Because it's a feature of Japanese (in most dialects, and all the major ones) that "u" and "i" become unvoiced (not dropped altogether!) following or in between unvoiced consonants. I.e., "su", "ku", "fu", "pu", and "shi". One example is Boston Red Sox pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka, whose nickname is "Dice-K" because that's how one pronounces his name - the "u" in the "su" is unvoiced.

So, ichi becomes "ich(i)" (with the second "i" essentially whispered), roku becomes "rok(u)", shichi becomes shich(i) (or alternatively, as Jennifer indicates, "sh(i)chi", or even "sh(i)ch(i)", and hachi becomes "hach(i)."

Quote:
Golly, just imagine if English had these kind of inconsistencies. Whew!
We do. Say "butter", or "letter" at natural speed. In American English, at least, the medial consonant is not a "t"! Or, say, "trip" or "train". Notice that you're not saying "t+r", but rather "ch+r". And then of course there's "gimme" for "give me", "wanna" for "want to", and "gonna" for "going to", all of which can give second language learners fits.

Jeff Foxworthy used to have a bit on this in Southern speech.

Redneck 1: "Djeetyet?" (Did you eat yet?)
Redneck 2: "Naw."
Redneck 1: "Yawntu?" (You want to?)

Quote:
Ani Forbes wrote: View Post
by the way, there is comedian (who isn't very funny) doing this counting joke on YouTube. So you're not in the dark, all multiples of 3 make him "stupid".

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=nffUwe...eature=related
That bit's hilarious...the first time you see it.

Last edited by Josh Reyer : 05-26-2008 at 03:37 AM.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
  Reply With Quote