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Old 02-15-2011, 03:23 PM   #226
Toby Threadgill
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 166
Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Your and your friends arguments in this thread, are not based on all the facts nor do they use logic.

A sophism is taken as a specious argument used for deceiving someone. It might be crafted to seem logical while actually being wrong, or it might use difficult words and complicated sentences to intimidate the audience into agreeing, or it might appeal to the audience's prejudices and emotions rather than logic; e.g., raising doubts towards the one asserting, rather than his assertion. The goal of a sophism is often to make the audience believe the writer or speaker to be smarter than he or she actually is; e.g., accusing another of sophistry for using persuasion techniques.

A sophist is a user of sophisms, i.e., an insincere person trying to confuse or deceive people. Sophists will try to persuade the audience while paying little attention to whether their argument is logical and factual.

Mr Skaggs,

Facts & logic.....Hummm.

Well...As I've said before it's all pretty simple stuff. It is you and others who are using sophism to confuse the situation.

We have an individual with only cursory experience in budo who was kicked out of his dojo by his sensei for improper behavior. He perceived himself to be so enlightened that he came here to publicly announce the founding of his own martial art. It later comes to our attention, (directly from his teacher) that he had promised not to teach what he learned from his teacher without permission, and that he is essentially ignoring this promise.

People including yourself attempted to defend this person with very convoluted reasoning. One method was throwing out comparisons to Bruce Lee, Ueshiba, Akuzawa and Dan Harden. And it was you who included one definition of sophism as:

"It might be crafted to seem logical while actually being wrong,"


On the surface these seem like logical comparisons but the people you mention are not relevant and therefore wrong for many reasons, some of which are:

None could be considered beginners.

Bruce Lee was never disloyal to Yip Man. Bruce was one of only 6 students ever trained personally by Yip Man and Wong Shun Leung. Bruce Lee was also already a boxing champion before he started teaching Jun Fan boxing after moving to Seattle from Hong Kong in in 1959. (FWIW, Long ago I was a student of both Jun Fan Boxing and Wing Chun. They are NOT the same.)

Morihei Ueshiba was fully licensed in Daito ryu before founding aikido.

Neither Akuzawa nor Dan Harden are teaching anything remotely similar to Daito ryu.

So the inclusion of all these people is not factually or logically relevant to the context of this debate, consequently it sure looks like you are using sophistry to me.

You also present evidence that Mr Read "may" be offering some information publicy that would compromise his claim that the information given to our esteemed founder and OP was proprietary. This might be a legitimate subject for another discussion but in this case it is irrelevant, and is frankly little more than obfuscation. Regardless of what knowledge is offered publicly by Mr Read the fact remains that a promise was made and it is now being ignored by the OP.

The relevant facts as far as I'm concerned are:

The OP is essentially a beginner but clearly making a public claim to be an expert.

The OP was kicked out of the dojo by his teacher for inappropriate behavior with a parent during a childrens class, but obviously sees himself as experienced and mature enough to found his own martial art.

The OP broke his promise to his teacher after leaving the dojo.

My conclusion based on these facts and the clear application of logic is that this person does not manifest the expertise, maturity or character traits I demand for serious consideration as a sensei or founder of a martial art. Simple as that.

I'm off to more important pursuits. The weasle farting can now proceed as I have nothing more to add.

Toby Threadgill / TSYR

Last edited by Toby Threadgill : 02-15-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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