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Old 04-07-2010, 08:12 PM   #52
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Dojo: Taikyoku Budo & Kiko - NY, PA, MD
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 998
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Not sure what you mean by vetted, and no one makes progress by leaps and bounds in this stuff, but just for the record, I have trained with Dan (and I am still training with Dan when I can) and although I am not 'vetted' by him, I have been told I have strong mental intent; which I have already stated elsewhere was simply an application of extending ki as I was taught in the ki society (which I believe led to your original question to me) - and to the best of my recollection, I was not told to stop that. Actually, I was told to quit being lazy and to do more.
Yes, the mental taxation is incredible and is reflected by guiding the physical components inside you - stretching the right things, releasing the right things, winding and synching the right things - and I think there's much more going on than "extending ki" (more on that, later), which doesn't mean that the mind doesn't "lead the ki" . . just that the presumption I took from your original post "I'll do you one better" is that you extend the ki and the other stuff just happens. If that's what you meant, then this is the part I do fundamentally disagree with because (and as you mention below) there's also an immense amount of physical conditioning that happens in order to reflect the extension of the ki.

Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
As I believe was mentioned in other posts by Dan and Mike, they stated (paraphrase here) that Tohei had the right approach to IS, but that he did not take it to the next level. I believe that and I also believe that Dan and Mike have methods that do take it to the next level and that is why I too have taken my training to the next level with Dan - and no one said that there was not any body conditioning aspects with a lot of work and sweat - actually, after one of Dan's sessions, all you got is an aching body and a lot of sweat.
Bunch of stuff here . . I think the appeals to authority may be oversimplified, but don't disagree with the gist of the above. Basically, those are the two components of the puzzle I think are being addressed here . . and I think we need to keep highlighting that this stuff is BOTH mentally and physically exhausting. Since part of the disconnect and discourse that's happening (my opinion) in this thread is the highlighting of one over the other (by multiple parties and multiple ends of the spectrum) - rather than discussing how "this stuff" represents a trained skill conditioned in the body guided via intent (or "mentally handling forces via developed jin" . . or or . .)

Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I am a little puzzled by your obvious tone of condemnation towards my training approach to IS. All I did was answer your question related to how I extend ki. I am starting to think you set me up with a bit of troll here. If you think I am full of it, just state so, as I mentioned, I could care less of your, or anyone's opinion in this area that I do not currently train with. Actually, based on past experience with you, I never did expect you to agree with it anyway and was reluctant to share it at first, but I thought why not, it just may be of interest to someone.
Well, I am interested, or wouldn't have asked. Not a setup, not a troll - just trying to get out from people working on "this stuff" how they are approaching "how it works" .. and I think your model of "believing in Tohei's ki approach" or however you're organizing it is a beginning step into tricking the body to not use local muscle (at least how I've seen this stuff demonstrated from a couple sources) . . but then there's the refinement, conditioning, organization . . which are iterative and inform each other over time.

Hence, when you say that you move the "ki" first and imply that the other stuff gets moved appropriately by it . . I'm gonna definitely ask what the heck you mean by that

We don't gotta agree, but don't take my disagreement nor pushback on how terms are approached or defined as lack of interest or even necessarily condemnation. We're all presumably chasing this stuff and I'm keen to hear what other people are discovering along the way. It'll all work itself out down the road as more info is revealed and people develop their skills and get hands on each other (part of the "vetting process").