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Old 07-24-2010, 07:13 PM   #19
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
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Re: Police/Military Blade Tactics

While Kukris are my favorite as well, I am not really sure how they fit into a modern fighting knife description. Then again to me a fighting knife seems weird. Wouldn't they want a best all around tool? How often would you use a knife....as a weapon?
I never go camping without a kukri as they are a good machete/axe/draw knife (an aspect rarely talked about) and fine knife as well when you know how to use the blade. Why there is a tendency to shy away from large weapons may be more of an "in thing" in the military than in real life. When men used all around weapons and tools- they were not usually small.
So how does that work in modern combat? I'll leave that up to the professionals..I've have no idea.
Long extended outdoor trips, I'll take certain large knifes everytime.
Hiking? I use a 3" folder. who need the extra weight.

That was a fairly decent video demonstration, minus some body placement issues. His noting the difference between the short and large knife is very true and that Kukris have tremendous potential for damage and work in a tighter cut as well as in a spiraling flurry of cuts and in stabbing. I was surprised to see something so decent.

Couple of points about his discussion of hacking, and chopping:
Kukris were not originally intended for fighting but were an all around agricultural tool. As an agricultural tool you could swing the blade in a manner that did not require that same firm grip. That grip actually reduces rather than enhances the knifes real cutting power. By keeping the knife loose in the hand, you could use the rings on the handle to pivot and snap the blade in your own hand. This allowed gravity to move the blade forward and you needed no where near the energy he is using to cut through large objects.
This method has been used for generations in domestic use to cut all day with much less fatigue.

My favorite example of this is when I had a bunch of guys test cutting on live trees on my property. They were using Katana and Naginata I forged and cutting through 1 1/2" to 3" trees. They were all pumped and having a great time and talking about "the power" and the mystery of the katana.
I walked up and took out a kukri I had forged ( a narrower surupeti style) and started cutting through a 3" tree cut after cut. With one hand I managed to "out cut" what they had been doing with two hands and a 30" sword.

Because I had no need for retention- I could use the blade/handle in a more relaxed manner and pivot it to let the blade do the work than what I saw there. Yes, I am aware of the Bando and other type use of the firm grip.
Anyway, I think Kukris are one of the best cutting tools (used as weapons) in the world, not the best stabbing.

Indigenous blades and why we should not take a cultures ignorance in their forging practices as gospel
The thick spine he shows is really a poor choice that they made as a trade-off for not hardening the spine. It is ridiculous to be mentioned as a plus. Most of these knives are made out of Springs (older ones out od railroad track) I or anyone of about 300 American smiths could produce a knife half that width that will outperform it in all aspects.

Modern Kukris forging is crap. They do not harden the spine at all, and compensate for it's inherent weakness with thickness-not a good choice. There is much debate among current Kukri makers about that very thing. And the way they harden the edge is atrocious. They have a tradition of:
1. Heating only the edge to critical temperature
2. Not soaking at temp. at all
3. Then pouring water over the edge to harden it.
4. Then tempering in an open flame.

This results in an incredible inconsistency. I own quite a collection of antique and new kukri, spanning about a hundred and fifty years. I have tested them for Rockwell hardness and in edge flex tests and they are ridiculously inconsistent. Further, the edges are not hardened through some are barely surface hardened, and years of use and repeat sharpening would see them reach the softer unhardened steel in the center.

I also make them. Were they to use modern methods; soak at temperature and then quenched in oil and temp soaked in an oven, they could then flame draw or heated copper black draw the spines back to spring temper and have both a a consistent and hard edge but also a tough back and be thinner and a far more effective knife.
There are many traditional, cultural based methods for making blades. It doesn't make them the best process...or even good, just tradition.

Dan

Last edited by DH : 07-24-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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