Kevin Leavitt

You tend to get real religious when your opponent has you in the mount with 4lb gloves on. "Oh God!"...comes to mind.

pre-destination and free will is always a fascinating discussion. I really grew a distain for Calvinism and have trouble with it....but, the more you think about it, free will has many issues as well.

Free will can imply that we are separate from the whole and freely make our own choices in isolation or without regard for anything else.

It can ignore the fact that we are products of our environment, we face delusion through our own perception of the world, and that we in no way depend on others, the air we breath, the food we eat, or the force that created us and to that which we will return.

interesting...not sure what it has to do with the original topic here, but a good discussion for sure.