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Old 08-10-2011, 10:43 AM   #39
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: Restart on Jin/kokyu and "Spiraling"

Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Dan, what has a popularity poll got to do with a factual discussion? You asserted that there wasn't a way for a linear force to be used as was being discussed. That point has been shown to be simply wrong, but if you want to debate it, please do so.
It is wrong and it leaves so many of you with all the issues I described. Many of those training that way know it and show it. It is a common failure in the External and internal arts. Why do I want to debate a model with you? I'd rather spend time fixing it in the people who obviously need it.

I don't know what "spiral energy" is, other than a vague term. I'm on record and video teaching "silk reeling" exercises for many years (long before they came up in any of your posts), but silk-reeling is not "energy", in a correct use of the term "energy". Your "dual spirals" are, as I said, apparently misunderstandings of the old Chinese observation about the two ways of winding that naturally occur in the human body. I've been teaching those 2 methods for many years, even before the QiJin forum. I originally learned the essence of them from Zhang Xue Xin back in the 1980's. Your idea that the natural spirals of the body somehow cause people not to be movable in the jin sense isn't correct. A simple statics diagram should tell you that in an instant. However, if that's your position, can you tell us how it works?
Mike Sigman
You haven't made one correct statement yet.
1. You telling me what my ideas are would require your understanding of them and expertise or at least competence in their use. I have seen you move.
2. I never used the term silk reeling, I was told I was silk reeling by two "real" experts and a host of lower level teachers. I still don't use silk reeling as a term. I never used the term, kua or mingmen either. I had a master class Taiji teacher with his hands all over me use those terms.
3. I have adopted some terms, not others, and adopted some good training drills from three teachers of ICMA....and?

4, FWIW, winding is not spiraling. You shouldn't confuse the two.
And once again You're putting words in my mouth doesn't make a case. "My idea of using the natural spirals of the body somehow cause people not to be movable in the jin sense".... is not what I say or do. That's your misguided ideas and statement. You're missing some fairly important things.

You should consider that there are people using their bodies congruent with the Chinese arts who never knew the Chinese terms...or not, whatever fits your agenda.

I'm out. I said what I wanted to say.
Many of us have seen and met people who followed your methods and what happened to them. Same for me, Ark, Sam Chin etc. It's all known.
We'll revisit it in years to come with all of us and all of them who do the work and those who kid themselves. I tend to separate out people who do the real work with master debaters.
See ya
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