Thread: Chinkon Kishin
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:43 PM   #26
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 5

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
I've mentioned several times before that the general framework of chinkon kishin ... my observation is that (a.) you can do the same things in different ways that are just as effective and (b.) those exercises actually only represent a small part of a complete solo regimen.
Agreed, which was the point to begin some small catalog of actual varieties of practice in this area.
Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Take your own case, for instance. Twice .. implied that your learning and teaching methodology was part of a full transmission ... your implication is .. that your knowledge is beyond Ikeda Sensei's.
Your strained inference, not my implication. I make clear I view it as a process and a progressive spectrum. You and I disagree in our interpretation of Ikeda's actual statements as to what he is intending in his cooperative enterprise with Ushiro. Unless Ikeda Shihan chooses to offer to elaborate, that's what we are left with.

Ushiro has been rather clear about his sense of what may be mainly lacking -- some aikidokoa just don't learn how to how to strike properly, and if so, I agree a huge heap of necessary skill is lacking there, because whether you choose to actually use striking power in a damaging way or not the principles giving power to strikes are inherent in the concept of aiki, and without which it is not aiki .

Since you brought him up, and I have quoted Ushiro before, his perspective does not seem that far removed from the way I have been taught. Since Saotome, Ikeda and he are seemingly so sympatico in their views and approaches, this is hardly surprising:
Quote:
Kenji Ushiro wrote:
How you respond to a serious attack depends on what your body remembers, which depends on what level of training you've reached, or in other words the degree of usability you've achieved.

If, for example, your body is equipped to "catch" all of the information about the opponent at the moment of contact and use this to formulate a correct response on the fly, then I think you can say you have "usability." At that point you can start using bunkai kumite (step-by-step sparring) based on kata as a system for getting feedback about the usability you've achieved.
Degrees, progressions, feedback. The latter using of "step-by-step sparring" sounds an awful lot like paired Aikido practice regimen to me. I've no doubt missed far more than my teachers intended for me to get, but what I "got" from my experience from them of Saotome's teaching is at least some sense of his purpose, and a glimmer of his methods in the kokyu undo and the waza as generic and specific complements of one another, in a self-generated learning process, once the rudiments are perceived, and practiced with honest observaiton and intent. I have cause to believe he is consciously trying to continue what he perceived O Sensei to be doing, as other uchi deshi have done with their own perspectives, talents and limitations.
Quote:
Kenji Ushiro wrote:
I feel that Saotome sensei is recreating Ueshiba sensei's aikido - aikido that is not about simply defeating opponents.
My attempt at following that purpose lies in trying to get people to elaborate a bit on the variations or evolutions of chinkon kishin and related kokyu undo. That process is also tangentially spoken to by Ushiro:
Quote:
Kenji Ushiro wrote:
... "shu-ha-ri" is about realizing that what you have become is thanks to your teacher and the fundamentals that he originally taught you. The closer you come to ri, the more you realize the importance of shu, and the more you realize how important your teacher is. That, I think, is how "tradition" can be maintained from one generation to the next. ... It's fine for people to have various different ways of thinking. But it's also important to be able to come together as one instantly if the need or opportunity arises. If you're talking about aikido, then Ueshiba Sensei is the point of origin, and I think it would be very good if people were able to gather around that point, that sense of common origin, with a feeling of unity.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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