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Old 06-24-2007, 01:09 PM   #1060
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Baseline skillset

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I'm working so I can't write just now.
I'm on the 12th draft of my novel these days...just taking a breather...

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
...And then there are guys without internal skills per se who can, I am quite sure take me apart. It doesn't deny the validity of the training method.
Exactly. And vice versa. There's nothing ultimately wrong with developing by technique practice--unless the techniques are of such a narrow range that they don't cover the whole map of human potential. Mifune is a perfect example of how judo technique does cover the full range of human potential. But modern judo competition has narrowed that, effectively, for most people. They will never experience and develop the full range of potential that Mifune did because competition forces them to work on a narrow range of the technical map.

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
But in the end fighting skill is just that. The real question is how to make me a better me. Wtether fighting, hiking, lifting or moving.
Absolutely agreed. And the Feldenkrais Method is far broader than any of the people you've met so far. Besides which, they have presented it to you in the wrong context, which is why I encourage you to have a look at it in its own terms.

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Now that said Internal skills will skew that to an internal artists advantage in a huge way depending on their skil level, thats all.
And I agree, from all that I've heard. Of course, I believed that when the only internal training methods I knew of were tai chi and baguazhang.

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Actually I NEVER said you can't learn parts of internal skill through paired training. You just keep saying I did.
Where did I say that? I know I've refered to technique practice, which tends to be paired, but don't forget, yoseikan also emphasized karate (and Hiroo Mochizuki emphasizes it much more than his father did). Like Ushiro Sensei, that "technique" practice is solo....through karate kata....

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I keep saying its the slow way. I just said it a few posts back.
Slow and often injurious. I wouldn't mind finding specific ways to shorten that time. On the other hand, the Feldenkrais approach to slackness and excess tension did help me quite a lot. It helped me recover from injuries, get back with the black belts and reduce the effort I needed to make better technique. It also let me view in deep detail my motivations for training and reorient my life.

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
You also keep saying Rob, Mike, and I try to say this training is something new when all three of us say just the opposite. That it's old, its known, but not openly taught when it could be.
Well, Rob refers to the Aun statues at the temples, clearly stating that Akuzawa's method does go way, way back. And you have indicated that you learned yours through dait ryu. Mike seems most pointedly to have learned what he has partly from Chinese sources and transferring it onto the aikido framework. And I know it's old in China. But in early discussions, Rob said that the Aunkai method was not qigong and there was a lot of unclarity about exactly what it was--including whether it was new or old.

But I don't recall saying lately that the concepts are new...

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I said the feldenkras guy and I were NOT...NOT...fighting!! Your retort was I would have learned something if I stiopped fighting him. To be clear he was telling me he could show me a better way to move that ewould handle guys trying force on me-this after he watched me do so. His methods failed over and over against me. So Why would I use something I can stop.
He was showing you Feldenkrais methods in a mistaken context. That's not the way to communicate the essence of it. It's true that Feldenkrais was trained in judo by Jigoro Kano and some of his top students, that Feldenkrais founded the Judo and JuJutsu Club of Paris and that he was a major influence on judo and some aikido people in Europe, but his Feldenkrais Method is not primarily about showing you a better way to move that would handle guys trying force on you. It's like taking a microscope to your nervous system. And if you've already developed the ability to look at your own system with a microscope, you'll find that the Feldenkrais approach will be like using and electron microscope.

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
So, I'd just rather keep doing what I am doing and then adding things from guys who got the stuff and are willing to share. Not from guys who think they do.
Well, Feldenkrais was not so widely influential because he couldn't do things. I know I flatly rejected learning about his method when I first heard of him--using very much the same words and reasoning you use. So I can say I know where you're coming from on that. But I will also say that no one has presented it to you as it's supposed to be.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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