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Old 07-30-2004, 11:34 AM   #321
frivolouspig
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 29
Canada
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Re: Anti-Americanism

First I'd like to say I have traveled the states many times, the people are nice, and the country is beautiful and vast. However I don't like the current government and I am tired of people with tunnel vision (which I might be guilty of as well but I try to keep an open mind) so I'm going to wade into this despite the fact that I'll likely be flamed and what I say probably wont make any difference anyway but here it goes.

I always like to come to a flame war well prepared so I have included plenty of sources.
The links I post are lengthy articles but I think just skimming them you will get the point.

On 02-03-2003, 01:06 PM (yes a long, long time ago but it's still current) Michael Neal quoted and responded to ahmad abas after he had written:

"Compounded with your ridiculous notion that I'm not free to voice my concerns out loud in Malaysia gives me a brief idea on your close mindedness and inability to learn beyond what the mass media has force fed you. Malaysia is a free country and a very peaceful one actually. Unlike some countries I know"

with the response of "Really" and two links:

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Recent/ASA280312001

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k1/asia/malaysia.html

I guess Mr. Neal missed the sections on the USA, but I didn't:

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-eng

and a short quote from the second link "Police broke up peaceful rallies, arrested protestors, and beat some detainees in custody."

Of course that never happens in the USA does it?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/261103mi...oninmiami.html

that is of course if they are allowed to protest:

http://www.amconmag.com/12_15_03/feature.html
http://www.protestzone.com

Funny thing is I thought the entire USA was a "free speech zone" but then again the things the USA was founded on seem to mean less and less each passing day.

Ahmad abas then unfortunately goes into a tirade about Israel showing he is also close-minded.

Moving on ----

I'm going to skip most the rest of the nonsense to more recent posts.

I have been looking for posts that try to back up their words with sources
Neil Mick does a pretty good job especially in his post on 07-27-2004, 12:23 AM
I'm hoping people will start backing up what they say with more links so we can see where they are getting their ideas from.

Within the last little while the conversation has been about abuse of prisoners in custody and Iraq, I have already covered this with my first link to amnesty.org so I'm not going to bother talking about it.

However I will mention that although poor treatment of prisoners can be found no matter what country you look at and if the US is going to improve their image of taking the high road and being in the right they should be the first ones to stop this treatment.

Now weather all the people in those prisons are terrorists or not will obviously be debated. But what about people who were treated like that before 9/11 what about the people that got screwed out of lawyers they should have had like Kevin Mitnick (I'm sure there are others but for me he was he first on that came to mind)

Four years without bail, trial, or charges listed against him. If nothing else, Mitnick remains as one of the worst constitutional abuses by the prison system in modern times.
Not to mention also held in solitary confinement for eight months "in order to prevent a massive nuclear strike from being initiated by me via a prison payphone." BTW they said he could do the nuclear strike by whistling into the phone which is such a laughable lie it makes me want to hurt somebody.

You can also read this (I use Rotton cause it's a nice summery rather then 5 or 6 links)

The war in Iraq was justified by saying that he was an immanent threat and he had nuclear weapons ECT. These were complete lies at worst and incomprehensibly bad intelligence at best. I'm betting somewhere in the middle.

A simplified version of my views:

Was Saddam a bad man? Yes.

Should he have been left in power? No.

Is it the USA's job to remove him from power? No.

WMD was the main reason for the war. Did he have WMD? No

Does a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq exist? No.

Did the US government help out OBL and Saddam? Yes, and Yes. (but who cares about the whole "gassing his own people" thing as long as we get them damn Commies eh?)

Does the current government hold up the Constitution or the bill of rights the USA was founded on? No.

Should George Bush and co. be removed from power because they do not? Yes

This thread started out as a post about being Anti-American

Maybe so many people are Anti-American because they feel if the American government can't even hold up its OWN values who the hell are they to place them upon others?

I'll leave you a quote from a guy who knew how to control a nation and make them do the most evil things possible.

"What luck for rulers, that men do not think." ~Adolph Hitler

Try to think about it...

Last edited by frivolouspig : 07-30-2004 at 11:42 AM.