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Old 06-14-2010, 08:26 AM   #61
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: Ki Aikido - quote from Gleason Sensei

Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Well we're not dealing with absolutes here, but Shioda specifically referenced the typical day as an pre-war uchideshi as being something around 14 hours long (5:30-7:30 I think, without having it here in front of me). I recall similar remarks from others in a variety of aikidojournal interviews. They trained a LOT and of course it wasn't all direct training under Ueshiba, but that doesn't matter. Shioda himself did a lot of paying attention then a lot of figuring things out on his own too, which is still training. I don't really care what the mass of those students were doing, just the ones that really got it.
Not trying to be argumentative, but rather trying to find the underlying research. What portion of an uchideshi's day was spent on training? While they may have spent 14 hours a day in duties, it would be nice to know what portion was actual training. Do you know what articles reference this or their training?

I'd agree that Shioda and the other students did a lot of trying to figure things out, but we have to also remember that Shioda went to Kodo and a lot of what Shioda demonstrates is very close to Kodokai material. We probably won't ever know how much Shioda learned from Ueshiba or Kodo.

Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Ueshiba himself, while he may not have spent eight hours per day in the dojo, he trained ALL day. There are far too many reports of him spending hours in his room chanting (breath work?) and doing who knows what else.
To get that good, I think we both agree that Ueshiba was obsessive about training. I think he did a lot of "solo training". Which brings up the question of where is all that solo training now, in modern aikido?

Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
I disagree, it is most definitely skipping over the fluff. When you can take a 30 move form or kata and pull out the two really meaty, quality exercises and do them over and over again, that's skipping over the fluff!
I guess we'll disagree here. Because after working solo exercises and paired exercises, I can see where most, if not all, aikido training can house aiki. Not as currently done in modern aikido but that's because aiki is missing and "replacement" moves (i.e. jujutsu principles) were used to fill in the gaps. This is where "timing" and "body placement" came into being in aikido. Look at the quote I posted about yonkyo being a body exercise, not a technique. Modern aikido uses yonkyo as a technique. Things changed, but it isn't about yonkyo being fluff. Instead, it's about revamping yonkyo to become what it was originally intended.

All the "warm up" exercises? Definitely can be used to build aiki. All the "techniques"? Why are they sooooo different than koryu jujutsu? They weren't really jujutsu after all, but vehicles/houses for the foundation of training aiki. No fluff in the kata/waza/techniques. Just missing the foundation of aiki.

Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Apart from that, you don't have to sell me on anything Mark. I had the luxury of reading five years worth of posts from you and others arguing against what Mike/Dan/etc were saying until you got and got your hands on someone and were able to happily insert your foot into your mouth. I say that jokingly of course, because I'm quite grateful for that.
I think you have me confused with someone else. I met Dan in 2006. Prior to that, I was not in the group of people arguing with him for years. Sometime in 2006 (if memory serves me right. I doubt it was 2005), I had a run of posts with Dan on E-Budo leading up to me meeting him in Oct. That was the first mention of Dan that I had. The archives are out there for all to check. Wasn't me arguing with Dan/Mike/Rob/etc.
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