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Old 02-24-2011, 10:55 AM   #67
George S. Ledyard
 
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
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Re: uke getting hurt

a) there is a huge difference between injuring someone and that same person experiencing pain. A lot of what we do can be painful. It's a martial art.

b) pain is just another form of feedback, the uke should be listening. I have had folks choose not to. I will let off a technique rather than injure someone but I have no problem having them feel the pain that comes with being somewhere one shouldn't be.

I know there have been times when I eased up so as to not hurt someone and the uke thought I didn't have the technique. They can think what they want... I have no interest in working with people that stupid so, generally, I walk away.

If it's one of my own students, however, I will let them experience a bit of what they are letting themselves in for if they resist. I can control what I do and it's better they learn from me than do the same dumb thing at a seminar and have someone really crank one on.

This is a martial art. I have a problem with the idea that everyone else needs to take responsibility for making sure you don't experience any unpleasantness. Injuring people is unacceptable. But teaching them to take responsibility for their own actions, in this case not doing something dumb while taking ukemi, is my job.

c) that said... it's also a matter of level. Pain is very ineffective in a martial encounter. Locks done with "aiki" don't even hurt at the point of the lock itself, but they take your whole center. Most folks don't do their locks that way. Most folks put all their energy directly into the point of contact. This isn't very high level practice but it works if you are strong and doesn't if you are not. People willing to put up with some discomfort will beat locks done this way.

So, the uke needs to learn what his or her physical limitations are. That never happens when everyone is so scared to apply techniques for fear that something might hurt. Nage needs to experience the fact that technique done in order to cause pain doesn't actually work very well. Once again, you don't get strong enough to stand in there and give that feedback to nage if no one ever applies techniques strongly on you. This kind of practice leads to students who will not go train outside their own dojos because their own dojo environment is so protective and the cruel world outside is not. Being over protective is the opposite side of being abusive and is equally unbalanced as far as the student's development goes.

Some of my attitude on this is colored by working with the Systema folks a bit. Much of what they do is very painful yet almost nothing they do is injurious. I see fewer injuries in their classes than in a typical Aikido practice. They learn how to relax and move the energy of what is causing them pain. Learning that pain just isn't that big a deal takes the load off it on an emotional level. If someone is afraid of experiencing pain, then anyone who can cause you pain can take your center. That just isn't good martial arts.

So, part of teaching ukemi is teaching how to relax and move so that what would have caused pain doesn't. You won't learn this if no one ever applies a technique that causes discomfort. Ukemi needs to be defensive, at least eventually. It is how you protect yourself, even when someone doesn't have your best interests at heart. That never happens if all the responsibility is put on nage not to do anything annoying to uke.

So, just to be clear... injury is bad, injury is to be avoided. Causing pain as a form of domination is bad and isn't actually effective. But a certain amount of pain is another form of feedback and one that people tend to remember better than explanations about why they shouldn't do a particular thing. In the situation described, I see no issue with how the teacher allowed the uke to feel the results of his ukemi choices.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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