Thread: Ogi
View Single Post
Old 03-08-2006, 10:20 PM   #12
xuzen's Avatar
Dojo: None at the moment - on hiatus
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 965
Re: Ogi

Kokyu said:
Some of the techniques in the ogi chapter look amazing; on page 203, Shioda Sensei makes his uke (who is holding Sensei's belt) fall down; on page 205, he is lifted up on both sides and he manages to come down and causes both ukes to fall backwards. Do you practice these type of techniques in your dojo?
No. Mr. Phang, we don't do these so called ogi technique in our dojo. However I have heard my sensei said something to this effect:-

"Feel carefully, even when both hands are grabbed, the force applied cannot be consistent. There is bound to be one hand that is stronger than the other. Feel for the difference in power, then capitalizes on the differences and work your way free" This is what he told me when I am doing techniques from the ushiro ryote katate mochi (two wrist grab from rear) syllabus.

Mr Phang, as for the technique you mention above, I think the same principle applies. When two ukes lifted him up, there is bound to be difference in the amount of power applied because it is impossible to apply the identical amount of force. I am sure Kancho Shioda applied the same principle when he breaks free from the ukes. In the book it may not be clear, but I have a VCD of him doing this technique, and I could see that he did his hip thingy and for a split second exerted a strong force using his waist or hips. I think in Mandarin term, this probably called "fa jing" I am sure Mike Sigman will have better explanation wrt this matter.

Mike Sigman said:
Another comment is that many people get enamored of the phrases dealing with "don't use muscle", "relax" and so forth and they mentally interpret that to mean that no strength is used. That's incorrect. Shioda's linkage throughout his body has been tempered and conditioned extensively and his literal power/strength in the dantien area of his body is pronounced or he could not suddenly release an effective pulse of power into an area that immediately takes ukes balance.
Kancho Shioda in is hey days, was a strong man, despite his diminutive size. My sensei was studying directly under him during the late 60's. My sensei said, despite his small stature, Kancho had huge wrist disproportionately big for his size. Kancho was a Kendo player in his earlier days, and my sensei suspect he got those strong arms from Kendo training. His atemi counts. When it comes to striking, Kancho's punches hurts. My sensei knows as he has seen many of his uchi-deshi goes to the infirmary after a intense jiyu-waza session with Da'man.

I totally agree with Mike Sigman about the term "aikido don't use muscle/strength" being BS. Actually people like Kancho or O'sensei do not appear to use much strength, because the strength is already in them from their physical conditioning during their early days of training. You cannot expect a weakling or a wuss to pull off aikido technique successfully without first doing some physical conditioning.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
  Reply With Quote