Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
I watched the video of this Takeda fellow, and read desription of his senior guys. I don't think his body looks as connected as written here but...here's a different thought.
1. Do you suppose that Mr. Takeda could throw another Mr. Takeda like that?
2. Were teacher and student exhibiting power and a trained body, would anything like -that- demo even exist anymore?
3. Were teacher and student exhibiting power and a trained body would the ukemi ever look like that?
For some of the folks who have visited here-you have seen the results of more experienced guys trying to throw someone with a connected body in more intense judo/jujutsu type throws then aikido and what happens to them when they do... So
4. How would someone with a connected and trained body respond to someone's Aikido waza anything?
5. What waza would "take" -lets use Andy- what Aikido waza would take Andy's balance? Even without him hitting or kicking them?
6. You have seen people get rocketed back up on their feet from seated wrist grabbing waza and give them whiplash or concussion from a wrist grab-where or how would Kokyu work while trying to be applied? Nage would be undone at the moment of contact and just stare at you as you sent their effort back into them. In time, many will be able to do things like this.
So, what have you decided will be your response when it does happen?
Which leads me to
7. In all of everyone's new ventures what do you suppose is going to happen in the future when someone tries their various levels of Kokyu...on you, and nothing happens? What will it do to the "look" of your Aikido when people simply have no ability to throw you or lock you- seated or otherwise? When your attack is simply too much, and overcomes them and controls anything they try to do. Since your center is retained and will not be able to be manipulated by these folks -what will they be left with to do except to be forced to blend with yours?
Has anyone seen it beginning to happen? Have you thought of what will happen as your body improves?
In the end, what will your new body do? What will it mean, seated or otherwise in your aikido? Moreover since most peoples definition of aikido is screwed, and you now know its true-will you, as a sub group of men be ostracized for not "blending" with these lower level master class teachers with disconnected bodies? Or be recognized for the superior skills you will then possess?
And returning back to the Takeda and Tissier commentary.
Again, as I am want to say over and over. Forget the teacher! Otherwise you miss an undeniable truth.
Watch the uke.
Talk about the connections of the UKE.
Talk about the structure of the UKE.
How do you suppose most everyone you know will fair in trying to accomplish aikido, with an attack offered by, say Wang Shu shin?
Who woud throw who?
Who would blend with whom?
What is Ai-ki-do then?
Should be an interesting ten years.
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Hi Dan,
Assuming that you can trump (kokyu wise at least) most anybody at your place (I assume this because that is probably why most of the folks there started training with you.) Do you teach/train by thwarting every attempted "attack" or "defense" that your guys offer? From what I've read of you, and about you, I find it hard to believe that you simply knock your guys over when they're training to ground a standing push simply because you can.
So, assuming you don't, aren't you "dialing back" so that you challenge them without repeatedly blowing them away?
If so, then isn't this paradigm a normal part of the training process?
If so, couldn't that be also applied in a demonstration?
It would be an interesting demonstration to see two equally trained individuals (if they where highly skilled and highly conditioned) interact but I doubt that it would be understood and/or appreciated by most.
I'm imagining the old story of the two kenshi that stood and sweated for a lengthy period (for drama I suppose) and finally bowed to each other. Or the story of Ueshiba and the Master Marksman who "squared off" and . . . well Ushiba bowed out of that one didn't he?
Anyway I'm thinking if Dan #1, and Dan #2 squared off it would be kind of boring. But we aren't talking about squaring off we're talking about a demo, so maybe Dan #1 would agree with Dan #2 to "dial it back" during the demo so that the audience could relate to what would happen?
On the other hand perhaps you are saying that if the demonstrator has Kokyu skills it should be evident, and if he is teaching Kokyu skills that should be evident in his students, and if the teacher is better developed (or they are equally developed and the demonstrator is a better technician/tactician) certainly his student should be able to come on with whatever he has and the demonstrator can demonstrate his superior ability?
Or perhaps if this is a Kokyu demo obviously it would be more impressive if he were to demonstrate superior Kokyu with someone else with Kokyu?
Or finally, how about, judge a teacher's ability (knowledge and teaching ability) not by the teacher but by the students?
[Obviously I'm assuming that you are requesting public feedback rather than using this forum to communicate exclusively with your own guys.]
I'd be interested to read a clarification of your perspective. I'm not disputing it, just trying to sort it out.
Thanks,
Allen
(p.s. I kind of rambled but maybe you can pick up the thread of my inquiry.)