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Old 06-12-2013, 10:50 AM   #6
Chris Li
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,307
Re: Four Generations of the Ueshiba Family

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
I think you missed my point. You still appear to refuse to accept that a dan ran rank examined and �grecommended�h from that 9th dan is a rank earned from that 9th dan. I think it is his name that goes in the examiner field of the Yudansha booklet.
Sure it does, but technically speaking, only Doshu can actually issue a certificate - even the paperwork submitted by the 9th dan says "recommendation for promotion" at the top.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Since you mentioned academic accreditation, I have a couple of university degree certificates signed by someone I do not know and whom I�fm pretty sure never read my thesis or vetted any of my work in person (especially the parts I did on exchange at a university in another country).
Sure, but in that case there is a system of checks and accreditation in place by impartial parties (or as impartial a system as can be devised). That's why most people won't accept a degree from an unaccredited institution.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
And we are talking about a �glineages�h (plural) system in my opinion. You have not shown how there are no checks or that there is no oversight on what I perceive as a system of lineages gathering around the iemoto-supplied figurehead.

So who gives licenses to doctors if not others qualified to be doctors? As for �gon their own�h are you saying that there is no discussion among the �gdoctors�h before or after testing within the renmei or higher up? That no one is rejected by panels of other �gdoctors�h within their �gfields�h of medicine?
Where are the checks and where is the oversight in Aikido? I think it's self evident that there is no system in place in the Aikikai - it's entirely a system of delegation down the line. The doctors are subject to a system of checks and accreditation, the same as the universities above.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
I think the �gwhat�fs in it for me�h reason for membership is not a good reason for membership.
There always has to be some reason for a person to be a member. What is the reason today? In the past it was personal connection - but those connections are very, very thin these days.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Glancing at my degree certificates again, I don't think I get any of these benefits. All they do is show that I completed a couple of programmes. Whether I actually gained any skills in doing so is another matter, but compared to the guy who has nothing to show for his studies, I have an indication of the possibility of transmission.
You get practical benefits from the accrediting system. Just try to get a job with a degree from an unaccredited institution.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Again, I wonder if you have contacted the Aikikai directly. Are you publishing your complaints internationally on the internet following the rejection of your ideas?
Have I spoken about these things to people at the Aikikai, sure. But that's not the point. As members of the Aikikai these discussions are important - and that's not just bitching about it to people at the headquarters office (who often agree with many of the points privately), but developing a public discussion and a consensus among the general population.

IMO, the top down approach won't work - the Aikikai no longer has the leverage or the prestige to impose new rules without the active consent and participation of the community and organizations worldwide.

It may look different in Japan, where there is more direct contact - but abroad many (most?) Aikido students today don't even have a clear activity of what the Aikikai is or how it's organized.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
I don�ft know. Are you suggesting Aikido is a motoha of Daito-ryu? Even a motoha is a facet of Japanese organisation and etiquette.
My point was that Stan Pranin has very clearly demonstrated that the post-war Aikikai (and even Morihei Ueshiba) made some questionable actions if you're talking about strictly adhering to the rules of etiquette and lineage in their relationship with Sokaku Takeda and the historical place of Daito-ryu. It seems to me that this history weakens a demand for loyalty based upon "etiquette" and "lineage".

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of a general umbrella organization like the Aikikai that connects people and groups with a common interest.

I do think, however, that the current model is unworkable over a large scale, and the sooner people realize that the better.

On the other hand, realistically, I think that it is unlikely that we'll see a major restructuring, and that the Aikikai is likely to slide into a condition of increasing irrelevance as an organization for most students of Aikido.



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