Dan why are you opposed to people's observations and point taking, did I criticise anything, no! Just My observations and thoughts. Mine :-) but I guess having a thought like " O'sensei would understand me and be 100% behind ME!", and then believing it does not give much room for others, thoughts and ideas now does it? Oh my, that does sound like one has a massive ego issue from one who should really know better.

And on the point of not having any competative experience how would you know. ( yes now I'm annoyed now). I went toa school which had one of the worst cases for drug taking, teenage pregnancies, and bullying rates in the country. Guess what category I fell into being a shy quiet kinda of a lonely person, yeah you guest it, the school punch bag, yep every school has one and if they deny it they are only deluding themselves. I got beat up everyday pretty much in school, why, because I "appeared" to be different, so I was bullied throught my school years, I learned if I just take it things will turn out ok, telling someone would have been ( and was a joke), that just made it ten times worse. But I realised even then that this was due to a competative mind. I didn't have the right blazer, old worn shoes, my parents were on welfare so I had free school meals, instead being able to by sweets like the rest of the kids, and they knew it. Having to borrow kit from the school because I didn't have any of my own then getting constantly teased for it. I myself dd not have probem with my so called lack, because inside I was free of all of it. This is all down to the mental, and believe me it is mental!, the mental conditioning of constant competition that is endemic in society.

7 years later I was partaking in an aikido demonstration in my home town (which I had left for several years), at least 4 of the worst offenders saw that demonstration, and came upto me afterwords and apologised almost on bended knees for what they did, and they saw that it was due to competition that they were conditioned almost to play and act it out. And do you know what I said Dan, that's ok too, Jesus said on the cross forgive them father for they do not know what they do! Why would you want to hurt somebody back who do not know what they are doing? And this I understood when I was in school that's whyI didn't fight back, because they truly did not know what they were doing, and I could not hurt them back for it.

And what do you know, I still am.

In Budo

A thought provoking post indeed. For those with the acute awareness of my post will notice, I actually did not criticise anything! It was simply a statement of MY observations, and I simply asked for thoughts on them.

To nick regnier, you seem to understand my intentions here. It is not about good or bad or wright and wrong. Personally I think they are both equally important because at there core they are trying to teach the same thing, how to be present enough in a possible dangerous situation and how to deal with it, at this level competioin hardly comes into it, it is indeed a moot point.

However when we then talk about applying the principles of whatever art we are practicing ito daily life, we only have to switch on the news at night or read a history book of 20th century to see the complete madness of the collective competitive human mind. That's my most honest humble opinion. For what it's worth, I can truly see why O'sensei removed it, isn't it so blatantly obvious, and hidden in plain sight,........ Sorry Ellis if you read this, I couldn't resist.

In Budo

Andy B