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Old 07-06-2003, 12:20 AM   #14
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Jo Adell (Qatana) wrote:
Avoiding Suffering? the First Noble Truth is that there IS suffering. and there is a way OUT of it. that doesn't mean not Feeling Pain, or Love, or Passion. It means not being a Victim to any of these things.
It sounds to me like you're drifting into the same sort of evasive, sophistical talk that Mike was using earlier. The standard stuff about finding a way out of suffering has to do with abandoning desire, especially for pleasure, material objects, and I guess in some sense immortality (although it seems arguable to me whether the quest for nirvana isn't just an immortality scheme of a different type). #1 is that the world is suffering, #2 is that desire and immersion in the messy stuff of life is the cause of suffering, #3 lo and behold, is that one can escape all this and get to Nirvana, #4 and worst yet, is that one has to follow all kinds of prescriptions for proper thought and behavior to get there.

The kind of 'roll-your-own' spin you're putting on this essentially life-denying scheme reminds me of someone I knew who claimed to be a radical, promiscuous sex-positive Catholic, or all the hordes of people out there who say they are Catholic but disagree with a good chunk of the dogma. If these people would just fess up to what the church was all about and accept the consequences, the damn place would go out of business next week. I don't see picking and choosing from various religions, or pieces of a particular religion as a good or lucky thing at all. I see it as wishy-washy way of avoiding personal responsibility which often results in lending de facto support to oppressive leaders and creeds.
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