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Old 01-15-2011, 06:46 PM   #198
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,248
Spain
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Well, I think you have provided the readers of your entry some openings that could be exploited. For instance:

Quote:
But Japanese martial arts - budo and bujutsu - are completely different. For hundreds of years people have studied budo and bujutsu without matches and competition. They are learned by studying basic movements and kata - stylized forms.
This statement lacks accuracy. There are various examples of koryu bujutsu ryu where matches are held for training purposes. As I'm not a koryu practitioner (and much less an authority in classical japanese martial arts) I can point only to a few of them:
Video:
Owari-kan ryu Sojutsu (more info here), Tendo Ryu Naginatajutsu, Jikishinkage ryu, Maniwa nen ryu (you have to pay for it).

Plus various accounts of koryu practitioners like Ellis Amdur:
Quote:
Araki-ryu, my primary study, always prided itself on its realistic, no-nonsense methods of close combat. Battle in the raw: no prettiness, no aesthetic flourishes, just gut-wrenching survival by any means necessary. Being a so-called classical martial tradition, the principal method of training was pre-arranged forms. However, we sometimes did freestyle training with oaken weapons, as close to the edge as we were willing to go. (...) One day my instructor came in with shinai (bamboo sword) and kendo masks and gloves. No chest protectors. He said that as long as we clung to form practice as our mainstay and in freestyle practice had to pull our blows, we would never know if our techniques had any integrity at all. He conceded that we ran the risk, using "safety" equipment, of covering ground already walked over by modern martial sports like kendo, but he felt we could counter this with two things: maintaining our kata training and freestyle work with wooden weapons, and making the whole body a target. In addition, by minimizing our protection, with no body or leg armor, we would not lose our flinch reactions, because bamboo weapons promised pain if not minor injury. This would keep us honest, as unlike martial sports, there would be no designated target areas for strikes. Just as in a fight to the death, the whole body was a target.
Source: http://www.koryu.com/library/eamdur2.html
I'd suggest reading his book "Old School: Essays on Japanese Martial Traditions"

Josh Reyer (I think he sometimes posts here):
Quote:
The earliest records of free shiai in Shinkage-ryu go back to the Sengoku period and the 2nd soke Yagyu Munetoshi, who in one poem extols high-level students who think they really have an idea about Shinkage-ryu to do shiai with a kodachi versus a standard sized shinai. Back in those days, and in the early to mid 1700s, such shiai were done without bogu.
Source: http://e-budo.com/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=117

Koryu budo websites:
Quote:
There is also the Aikuchi roppo, an advanced form of trainning using fukuro shinai. The fukuro shinai used is made with six strips of bamboo and horse leather. Aikuchi roppo is not constituted by formalized kata, but by free forms, in wich shidachi, using two swords, counter the attacks made by uchidachi
Source: http://www.nitenichiryu.jp/joomla/in...page&Itemid=53

Scholars: Japanese sports: a history, Chapters 1 & 2. Legacies of the Sword: The Kashima-Shinryu and Samurai Martial Culture especially the part dealing with the developement of fukuro shinai (I'll give you the page numbers later as I don't have it at hand at this moment).

And this without digging much. I figure someone knowdlegeable about classical japanese martial arts could give more examples pointing the inexactitude of your statement. Inexactitude that could be used against your conclusions.

Another statement I find problematic:
Quote:
O Sensei Morihei Ueshiba the founder of aikido deliberately kept it free of contests and competition.
I believe O Sensei banned (for a lack of better word) 試合.
However, I think we have to consider not only the context and his motivations to be sure what he was trying to convey and why, because he could have arrived to banning 試合 based in erroneous assumptions (unless his words have to be taken as holy scripture or if his person was preserved from even the possibility of error like the Pope when teaching ex cathedra). Maybe we are interpreting his words erroneously. Maybe we should analyze if this banning is still valid considering we are living in different times, countries and cultures. And, last but not least, consider if followind blindly the banning we are falling into the heresy.

I think statements like this one of O Sensei, being so open to interpretation, analisis and discussion, are not useful to support banning matches if they are done as quality controls.

Another statement I have issues with is:
Quote:
He (O sensei) used a phrase, Masakatsu agatsu 正勝吾勝 winning over yourself, to emphasize this.
I think I've read something about this phrase, possibly written by Prof. Goldsbury, that points to "winning over yourself" being a poor translation of the name of a deity in the Kojiki. Maybe you should check with him to be sure.

Also:
Quote:
There is another phrase in Japanese martial arts, kokkishin 克己心, that also means winning over yourself
I don't know about Japanese language but I'm not sure if "self - restraint" has the same meaning of "winning over yourself" in English (but as English is a language I barely know, probably I'm wrong). However I'm sure in Spanish "dominio de sí mismo" is not exactly the same as "victoria sobre uno mismo". Can you ellaborate?.

OTOH:
Quote:
Tomiki Sensei was a judoka who was sent personally by Kano Jigoro Sensei to study aikido with O Sensei.
This is in contradiction with:

In the autumn of 1926 Kenji Tomiki was introduced to Morihei Ueshiba in Tokyo by his friend Hidetaro Nishimura (formerly Kubota) from the Waseda University Judo Club. Tomiki was immediately impressed by Ueshiba's aikido techniques. The techniques were different from judo but left a deep impression on him. After this, with his younger brother Kensaburo, Tomiki started going to Ueshiba's dojo in Gotanda every day. During the following summer holiday in 1927 Tomiki went to Ayabe, because Ueshiba had moved there, and trained with him for a month.
Source: http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/en/rekishi3.html

Consider also Kano didn't saw O Sensei demoing until 4 years later, then we have serious discrepancies between your statement and both Shodokan home page and Nidai Doshu.

BTW, the use of loaded words like "Most aikido practitioners have a more traditional and purist vision of aikido." and qualifiyng Tomiki line as "minor style" makes me think on you having some kind of agenda.

So, reading your entry, I feel that if someone tried to destroy the arguments you have used to support your conclusions he/she will have a very easy job. Too much suki for someone of your rank, experience and skill, methinks.

PS: bold mine.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 01-15-2011 at 06:52 PM.
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