Mark Murray wrote:
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I may be misunderstanding your point ... but IP/aiki really is THE important thing. It is why Takeda, Ueshiba, Sagawa, Horikawa, etc all talked about it. They didn't equate techniques with it, didn't equate fighting with it, didn't equate jujutsu with it, etc. While those other things are important and are things that people can learn, it was IP/aiki that was the well-spring. It was why Ueshiba said, "We would do it this way with aiki" -- because aiki changed how the body functioned, whether in a compliant or non-compliant world.
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it might be THE point for you and it might have been THE point for Takeda, Ueshiba, Sagawa, Horikawa, etc. I don't know all these guys, but from what knowledge I have...I think they were specialist in their own right and decided to focus on a particular slice of the whole. Impressive and Powerful.
This takes nothing away from them, but everything I saw of (at least O'Sensei) were videos and demonstrations in which he had a high degree of control over the conditions. Not saying that he was not competent....just that in terms of his focus, he was not exactly putting himself out there like Yamashita, Maeda, Carl Gotch either.
So..yeah...agree....Aiki is a separate and distinct focus and is NOT jiu jitsu necessarily. However, where I'd draw the line is in application or priority. About integrating it back into the things that make it a martial art.
You guys know more about this than I do....are their examples out there of these guys or their senior students doing the stuff that was being done by guys like Yamashita, Maeda, or even that dirty american catch wrestler Carl Gotch? It would be interesting to explore. especially since Kano's protege's were so close and Kano and Ueshiba were contemporaries. I wonder if they had similar discussions as Ueshiba went one direction and Kano went another.