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Old 06-02-2007, 07:13 AM   #158
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Meaning of Competitive?

Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
In day-to-day usage, most speakers of a language will rely on the context of a word or phrase and deduce the meaning from it rather than an etymology which may, in any case, not be at all clear, particularly if it is based in a foreign or archaic language.
So based on this concept, in time as people begin to see that competition itself is not necessarily a negative force upon ones training, but the nature of the human being whose base weaknesses are exposed by competition, the general consensus of the word's meaning will change and then all of a sudden the definition of competition will become something else. But then it will be correct because more people believe it to be so? I'm sorry but regardless of what 1 or 1 billion people believe, the truth remains the truth, regardless of perception. Language is a medium of communication, if people keep redefining words based on how they perceive things, language itself will fail in its purpose. We are starting to see the effects of this today.

What you accuse us of doing has in fact already been done with the word competition, it has just had more time to cement itself within culture. Your concept of what the word competition means and the popular meaning of the word have nothing to do with its original meaning in the true sense of the language. Think of the original meaning of the word "gay" and how it is often used now in certain "English" cultures. The interesting thing is that because this new usage of the word is still young, even though the popular expression of "gay" (homosexual) is quite prevalent, the original meaning (happy) still exists. In time this may change as the popular expression becomes more widespread, but this will mean that a colloquialism has in fact redefined the original meaning of a word without having any actual lingusitc merit.
Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
So, you see, you have to be very careful when you use a word with a meaning other than the usually accepted, and this thread is a good example. I've said before that the people trying to defend competition here are not only confused, but also confusing, and that is harmful.
Funny, the concept of the benefits of competition in Aikido has not been confusing to some of the highest ranked Shihan of the Aikikai before and after the death of Ueshiba M. It sounds to me that you are the one who is confused. Admittedly, English is not your first or native language. This may have quite an effect on your understanding of certain words.
Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
The "new meaning" for competition that was the idea in the article quoted by Chuck, is very different from the normal, everyday, what-everybody-understands-by, meaning of competition.
As indicated earlier, what you think is the common, everyday understanding is the "new" definition. Also, it is quite apparent that not "everybody" holds the view that competition is a win/lose proposition. In fact it can be said that only people whose focus is "winning at all costs" instead of "meeting and testing together" have your view of competition. The article on this link - http://www.franklincovey.com/fc/libr...gh_competition - written by a former Olympic competitor sums up the actual meaning of competition quite nicely and gives some interesting comments on those who have deluded themselves into believing that the concept is about winning at all costs, instead of playing the game to the best of your ability.

I can see how Ueshiba M. would have an issue with competition. This is because he probably defined the word the same way you do, which is incorrect. In a Meiji era Japan, coming right up to WWII many viewed "competition" in the traditional Bugei manner of a life and death struggle. In these times I'm not sure how many people would have seen any sort of cooperative testing as "mutually beneficial". This mindest showed itself quite well during WWII. Kano J. also met some resistance when he advocated Judo's new randori and shiai paradigm, coming with the understanding of competition's original meaning. Good for him, these voices got quieter after his Judoka officially challenged and routed Jujutsuka from many of the established Koryu Jujutsu schools at the time. The effectiveness of his method could not be challenged as the objective results were undeniable.

If Ueshiba M.'s Aikido is supposed to "encompass and purify all things" then why does it fail so miserably in dealing with competition? Imho it doesn't fail, but then many people don't really know what competition means to start with. In fact the word competition provides exactly the win/win sort of outcome that Ueshiba expresses as what defines his Aikido from other arts of the past. As a way of peace. I even daresay that those who do not engage in some sort of competition for true self development (to cut down the ego as it were) are actually further away from Ueshiba M.'s ideal than those who do engage in it with the correct mindset.
Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
others who said it is the only way to check their progress in Aikido (which, as we've seen, it's nonsense).
Where have we seen that this is nonsense? Please provide the proof of this allegation. How do you know that your Aikido provides what you think it provides? Where are the results of your objective tests? Gradings are subjective tests (often done in a completely collusive context) so that has very little bearing. From my own experiences the lack of competition in Aikido is what gives us the current situation where a lot of honest Budoka feel that the art is useless for self defence, has no original meaning behind the movements, only works if your partner uses no free will, allows students to create a dangerous cycle of ego-gratification and passive-aggression within their own training environments and a host of other issues.

The reason is because there is no feedback mechanism for objectively testing what one thinks one knows. The result is the culture of martial mediocrity and by extension - self development mediocrity that we see today (an unwillingness to look at the honest truth of the self is fostered and replaced by empty self-coddling). Then look at the schools who do engage in some sort of "meeting and testing" and you'll find that they can readily show what they do and do not know about Aikido and there is no way of dodging the issue of having to consistently do better with ones training. Competition brings honesty and humility, which are critical to the Budoka's development. Lack of competition fosters the opposite - big, unbalanced egos.
Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
In the case of O'Sensei, you can say that he changed the meaning of a word, but within his cultural tradition (the concept of "aiki" outside Japan has but one generation) gained his authority by becoming the highest regarded martial artist
Highest regarded by whom? He was an exceptional Budoka but highest regarded is a bit of a stretch in a time when the direct students of Takeda who actually completed the entire Daito Ryu syllabus were still around, not to mention the exceptional Budoka from other systems as well. Ueshiba M. was exceptionally skilled, but "highest regarded" is a bit of a stretch imho.
Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
Obviously, I cannot and would not try to stop you or anybody else to start their new competitive art. Just don't use O'Sensei's authority by relating your new construct to Aikido.
Well besides the fact that you cannot stop it, this is nothing new, maybe it is only to you. For many years, even while Ueshiba M. was still alive, have there been Aikido groups who have realised (like Kendo and Judo) that there is a place for competition in Aikido and it does not conflict at all with the core principles of the art. If anything it improves ones overall Aikido and Budo spirit in a very special way. Imho if Ueshiba M. did not stop it when he easily had the ability to, and was quite knowledgeable of the developments happening in competitive Aikido (may even have encouraged it at Waseda University) then imho competition in Aikido is supported by Ueshiba M.'s authority. Do some research.
Quote:
Santiago Torres wrote: View Post
Go on now, indulge in name calling and ad-hominem.
No need to. My argument is totally sound and supported by people who are exemplary Budoka.
Gambatte.

Last edited by L. Camejo : 06-02-2007 at 07:27 AM.

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