View Single Post
Old 12-29-2010, 01:16 PM   #12
Lorel Latorilla
Location: Osaka
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 311
Japan
Offline
Re: Direction of Groundpath

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
You give two choices, Lorel:

1. Tim has pinpointed the wrong muscles
2. Internal strength is a mystical, magical thing.

The topic of internal strength is larger than just qi and jin, of course, but to keep it succinct let me just say that there is a third option: Tim has missed what the entirety of internal strength actually is. I'm trying to think of something explicative to support that .... ah, OK, how's this comment from Chen Xiaowang:

The basic thing I'm pointing to is that it is not the muscles (the strength of the foot, in the example), but something else that is the main element to be concerned with.

As I've said a number of times, basic jin is fairly easy to learn, difficult to do "purely"... and yet it's only half of the equation. Yet most people get a little jin here and there, couple it with some normal strength, and ba-da-boom, it's being taught and described as "internal strength". Heck, that's worth a discussion in itself.

Incidentally, I don't want to trivialize the fact that Tim is doing some thinking. That's the right thing to do. I could simply not say anything and let it pass with a smile, but there's a part of me that knows that silence when I know better is sort of a nasty choice. So don't take my comments wrongly. They're meant to be helpful.

Mike Sigman
Hi Mike,

I don't understand what you mean by the fact that Tim has 'missed the entirety of internal strength', when his post clearly informs people how to condition the 'dantien'. Of course, conditioning the dantien is not the end-all be-all of bodyskill, but I figured that it is important to develop it to access those qi/jin skills that you are trying to develop.

"The basic thing I'm pointing to is that it is not the muscles (the strength of the foot, in the example), but something else that is the main element to be concerned with."

Never did I get a sense from Tim's article that the power or movement comes from the strength of the foot, Mike. The information I got was that manipulation of the middle--which I said is what the spear exercise helps to develop--involves contracting the psoas muscles, and also the tilting of the pelvis. Now, using these terms may not seem informative because 'psoas' could look like a hieroglyph to a lay person, and 'tilting the pelvis' may sound weird also. But the great thing is that there are particular body stretching techniques from various disciplines (Rolfing, etc.--Tim gave a link on the Massachussetts stretch which basically helps physically identify the psoas--) that are used to identify the psoas and the pelvic tilt in a real physical way. Don't believe me? Search "psoas stretch" or "pelvic tilting" on youtube. Now, that people can be physically cognizant of these things, they are now informed and can be instructed, like in Tim's article, how to do dantien rotations with particular exercises (in my case, spear thrusting and squatting monkey). I think it's silly to think that we can move the middle without engaging some of the muscles in that area.

So I have a few questions for you Mike:

1) If you think Tim's article had nothing to do with 'internal strength', is it on the basis that you think that conditioning the 'dantien' has nothing to do with it? If not, please answer the following questions:

2) Is Tim wrong in identifying those muscles that help with 'dantien rotation' (side to side, forward to back) and 'dantien condtioning'?
3) If so, can you please describe to us--not in metaphorical terms--which muscles are being contracted, what is being pulled, etc. when we're conditioning the 'dantien'?

Look forward to your reply,

Lorel

Last edited by Lorel Latorilla : 12-29-2010 at 01:19 PM.

Unless stated otherwise, all wisdom, follies, harshness, malice that may spring up from my writing are attributable only to me.
  Reply With Quote