AikiWeb Aikido Forums - View Single Post - Should we intervene if witnessing violence?

George S. Ledyard · 04-14-2002, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ca
Ledyard Sensei,

Sir, with all due respect,I think the 'call the police' group is coming from a slightly different place than you perceive-- and we may be all coming from different places within that group. But here is my take on it, first with a personal example:

I was married to a man who liked to beat his wives. I knew he could get violent. And I knew first hand how violent. And his violence would increase if he thought someone was 'taking her side'. I lived in fear that some well meaning man would, at the wrong time, intervene, push him over the edge, and instead of just beating me, he'd shoot me and my rescuer. Even if I could be sure the rescuer had as much skill (and size) as you, I much, much, much prefered that anyone interested in helping me get somewhere safe and call the police, and make sure he knew the police were coming.

I was going to reply earlier that I felt for the police who had pleaded with us not try to do their job: rarely do onlookers feel compelled to do mine...they all gather around to get in the way for us to get to the victim, but they often don't attempt even the simplist first aid, or CPR. It would be nice if they knew how to do it, and that they did. But it is nicer that they aren't making my job worse, either. And first aid and CPR don't require decades to get good enough at it to do something; maybe you can only get safe and call the police, and yell out the window that they are coming...but then when the bad guys run away, wouldn't it be great if you knew how to stop the bleeding? That info might be just as important, if not more, than the harder to get proficiency in martial arts or even firearms.

Anyway, just my personal opinion. I didn't back when I was married (nor still) want a bystander to just stand there, but neither do I want him to jump into the fray. I want him to avoid becoming a victim himself, something that would give me severe emotional and mental harm, and to make sure help (including police and medical) arrive.

As for us arming ourselves...well, I've seen even police, who are highly trained and do this every day for their living, make mistakes and shoot an innocent person. I've patched up some of those, and children and adults accidently shot by friends and relatives, and sometimes not been able to patch them up.

I have the deepest respect for you, sir, I really do, but even you I would prefer to see call the police.

Thank you so much for your heartfelt contribution. I completely get where you are coming from. In point of fact I would have to make a very quick assessment and then go with my instincts when it came to intervening. That would especially be true in a domestic violence situation.

On the other hand I am not one to put huge amounts of responsibility on the police. I train these guys and am quite familiar with their capabilities. Most of the time I would probably call them because my interevention would not be necessary. I am not going to place myself at risk lightly.

Twice when I lived in Washington, DC I interevened in domestic violence situations. Both involved guys beating up their girl friends on the street. One was serious in that he seemed intent on doing some real damage. In that case other men and women from the neighborhood arrived at the scene at the same time to help and we simply dissuaded the fellow from continuing his actions until the police arrived. My training came in to play only to the extent that the consequences of his continuing to beat this woman would have been real and not empty threats and he knew it.

In this instance that woman could have been dead if we hadn't intervened. He had picked up a post that supported a divider chain on the lawn and was hitting her with it. Fortunately when he grabbed it it turned out to be plastic and she wasn't seriously hurt. But he clearly hadn't grabbed it with that in mind. And if it had been a metal post she would have been maimed long before the police arrived. As it was they were there in about four or five minutes. They arrived and we stepped back. I would have had some real personal issues with myself if I had felt that I had to hold back and simply watch her being beaten because I hadn't the skill or intention to help.

But I am also aware that the issues involved are quite complex and I would always act with serious forethought about the consequences.