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Old 11-03-2011, 08:47 PM   #18
Allen Beebe
Location: Portland, OR
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 532
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Re: Daito-ryu Aiki-jujutsu Documentary

Hi Dan,

For what it's worth, we (dojo rats) looked at the video and all said, "Huh! Looks very familiar. (on a technical level if not IPaiki)" This started a conversation: Shirata took over the Osaka (a hot bed of Aikido/Daito Ryu) dojo from Yonekawa (often noted as the physically strongest at the time, bending six inch nails and banging bundles of rice, later stabbed to death) right before Takeda Showed up in Osaka and took over instruction at the Asahi dojo. Both dojo were Ueshiba's dojos prior to Takeda's arrival. I assume therefore that Takeda assumed that both were equally under his aegis and would have appeared at both. After all, his student was was teaching at both when in town. However, history tells us that it didn't quite pan out that way in the end. Asahi went to Takeda with HIsa "at the helm" and Osaka stayed with Ueshiba with Shirata "at the helm" before he was drafted. (Shirata was slated to be the Aiki Prof. at Manchukuo but due to his conscription Tomiki went.) Hisa himself says what they (Takeda/Ueshiba) were doing was the same stuff. Shirata, in public interviews, was tight lipped for, I think, obvious reasons. Actually, he was tight lipped about a lot of stuff that transpired at that time. HIs reward? Censure and essential relegation to obscurity. Nice! (But then I'm biased.)

BTW, there are some great Shirata quotes you might be interested in. Ones where he clearly points beyond waza. Hope to speak with you soon.

Kind regards,
Allen

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I think making comparisons by using technique as an indicator is flawed from the get go. And Ellis is correct about time spent on learning IP/aiki as a different model than time spent being indoctrinated in waza. The fact that Ueshiba started rounding out, introducing projections- which are martially stupid, but in practice safer than vertical drops- and reducing waza....means little to me. We now know he was keeping the real goods in -for those who would listen.

Shioda's movement is what matters to me, not the techniques, which hardly matter at all. It is worth noting that many of his stock in trade public displays are right out of the box, DR kodokai tricks)
More important is that you can see the connection in him and the connection in Shirata. I have some private video of Shirata doing sword, which is miles above anything I have ever seen Ueshiba do. I have been widely criticized for stating that I was frankly unimpressed with Ueshiba's swordwork. Shirata had connection and it was on display in free movement with weapons.

Both of these men have had Daito ryu people watch their waza and proclaim "That is Daito ryu!" (note* with Shirata it was more so with his in-house teaching NOT wha he did at Hombu). So one can ask; where did they get their connection from? But it really isn't that hard to put together. Both were Daito ryu students of Ueshiba-in the era where Ueshiba was actively push-testing as part of his regular training (as all the IP guys do) and as I now have recently discovered -was the same time period in which he was apparently actively discussing internal training; to include spiral energy and how it effects all movement.
Some got it... to one degree or another.
In the end, Aikido's founder was yet another of the worlds internal artist. One who even pointed it out to those interested in listening.
Dan

~ Allen Beebe
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