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Old 07-11-2009, 04:57 PM   #21
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: Japanese Aikido Teachers - Translation

George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
The implication in all these posts is always, "O-Sensei was really a Daito Ryu man and everything good got lost because we lost the Daito Ryu connection."

O-Sensei quite consciously changed what he did from what went before. O-Sensei himself introduced the larger movement that distinguishes Aikido from any other martial art. If he had thought that Daito Ryu was the ultimate expression of what he wanted to convey, we'd all be doing Daito Ryu.
I think you completely missed my point. I was specifically talking about Ricky and Mike's post about "listing physical phenomenon" in relation to "ki". And all this "ki" stuff that Ueshiba is doing is really Daito ryu aiki. It certainly isn't Oomoto kyo aiki, now is it? It certainly isn't judo aiki. It certainly isn't tons of other martial art aiki. Now, you want to apply some Ueshiba "ki" physical phenomenons and put them into some sort of listing, then check out Ueshiba and the Daito ryu greats because they all did the same stuff -- they used aiki as taught to them by Takeda.

What do you think is really going on when you see pictures of Takeda, Hisa, and Ueshiba in that pose with one arm up and one down? Aiki.

What do you think is going on when both Ueshiba and Kodo are on video sitting on the ground and people trying (and failing) to push them over? Aiki.

What do you think Ueshiba, Kodo, Okamoto are accomplishing when they are demonstrating multiple person pins? Aiki.

Hence, my post that showed videos and threads on where that list was started and where it can be added to.

I see where people get this lost "Daito ryu" connection thing. If you read my posts, I try to state that Ueshiba never quite doing Daito ryu aiki. NOT "Daito ryu", but "Daito ryu aiki". There is a major difference. That's my mistake as I didn't explicitly put that in my post. Sorry. I'll try to not do that again.

And I have *never* denigrated Ueshiba or Aikido. In fact, check my posts as I have always thought highly of both Ueshiba and Aikido. It isn't "bad Daito ryu".

George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
What was different about O-Sensei from the other great "aiki" masters of his time was not technical. It was largely mental and there were others who had much the same skill. The combination of the Founder's spiritual ideas with the physical technique derived primarily from Daito Ryu became something else.
I'd disagree. It was never a "combination of the Founder's spiritual ideas with the physical technique". In fact, Ueshiba trimmed Daito ryu's syllabus quite a bit. It was a combination of the Founder's spiritual ideas with Daito ryu aiki. Not physical technique. There is a vastly huge difference and that is what creates confusion in the Aikido world.
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