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Old 01-16-2009, 04:22 PM   #164
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Using ki-skills for "aiki" in Daito-Ryu

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Just to be clear, since some old articles of mine from the early 90's are being used, part of the question was and is how to say something so that people can understand the concept in order to get their foot in the door. The problem with "shear" forces (they're referred to as "contradiction forces" or "antagonisitc forces" in the old literature) is that the way Erick presents it conflates the meaning with simple muscular tension.
And to be equally clear the shear is the result of opposed contradictory moments caused by a pinned lever in the structure. Osae waza are creating and directing shear INTO a target structure to disorganize its material (potentially damaging , like snapping a pencil), whereas other techniques and principles of movement are directing shear through or from a target structure to disorganize its stability, like tipping out the haunch of a block arch so it collapses.

That pinned lever in the body is not necessarily caused by local muscular tension. There need not be (although there can be) local muscular exertion involved in creating the situation in question. I can analogize with the already mentioned finger-on-the-table example, which can be created either by extending the finger against the table ( local muscular tension, or by holding the finger in a set position and shifting the weight of the arm or body to bear more on the finger (taijuuido) in a direction that creates a high lateral shear ( attention to "angles," I believe was mentioned in the text). They are similar in appearance, and yet different in both the cause and the effect. The muscular action we are discussing is core-driven, not local. The rest of the structure just propagates what is set up and then driven from the core.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
There's more to it than that; how you train for "contradiction", etc., has a lot to do with breathing techniques and "jin" forces and conditioning the body. If it was simple, everyone would be doing it. "Shear forces" is enough misleading that I would personally discard it.
I am describing the mechanical principle that is acting, and described plainly in other terms in the works and traditional concepts cited -- what is done, not how to train to do it. I have only one prescription for that and it is the one I have trained in -- which is not to say it is the only or even the best or to derogate others that are effective in using related physical principles. .

I only made the point simply because the discussion was teetering on issues of not disclosing terms of art or concepts that are proprietary to a traditional system. Mechanics is not proprietary (nor even culturally restrictive, these days) and should not cause the same concern to our kobujutsu buddies. I mentioned asagao becuas eit may provide a DTR template that is already "out there" for the Roppokai and others to address or key off of without treading on their oaths.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 01-16-2009 at 04:31 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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