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Old 10-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #238
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: VoE: AWASE - The Principle of AIKI

Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Of course! Many people on this forum have found some new material that they are very enthusiastic about. There have been multiple epiphanies. That's really great!

But what they are training is not from Ueshiba, so it is not correct to say that it is "Ueshiba's".

There is a continual resistance to this truth, and the general shape of counter-argument goes along the lines of "but it is really great training," or "here are twelve Chris Li translations that seem to be talking about something I think i am talking about," or etc.
This is not a counter argument Cliff.
So your saying if Ueshiba discussed Math... that math is now unique to him?
So instead he discusses known methods for generating power and handling they are now unique to him?
What is really happening is a gradual realization that it is the Aikido community (including top Shihan) who were just simply ignorant, (sometimes self admittedly ignorant) of these concepts. That's not me insulting anyone. There is nothing wrong with not knowing these things. Chiba admitted to not knowing what the old man was talking about and he couldn't wait for him to shut up so they could get back to training. He said it...twice.

I've said this dozens of times to a largely unaware audience: Ueshiba discussed terms and concepts that are a perfect match with the same terms and concepts used across cultures and time by warriors. These terms were for concepts known for producing power.

Not knowing them and how to do them is one thing. Not even knowing they existed? Well... it certainly doesn't make someone right, it makes need of better information.

Heaven/earth/ man and the floating bridge
This is the foremost way to learn to manage forces within you. Putting the cosmology aside, it is a body method taught in certain yogic practices, in the internal arts of China, It was noted for being taught at the Kashima and Katori shrines as far back as the mid 1400's. When it is mentioned, it is mentioned for producing power. Ueshiba noted it "released the mountain echo" This is pertinent in that he demonstrated it regularly when people "echoed" or bounced off him. There are minor and major ways of using it. Some more sophisticated than others.

Incidentally, The vertical twirling of the bo or jo he does is not him stirring the toilet bowl of the gods. It is in fact yet another way of practicing and utilizing the above powers, which is not unique to him either.

Six directions
This is yet another term used repeatedly and has a pedagogy mentioned in the above paragraph on Heaven/earth/man. It matches Tohei's use of the one point model. The method used to make it work however is not just standing their dreaming of all directions and extending ki, rather it has a palpable effect on the whole system. Even more interesting is that Tohei's use of the term "one point" is not his either, it came directly out of his yoga practices and terminology.

And both of these tie in neatly to Ueshiba's answer on "What makes aiki?" His answer being a quite definitive breaking point for our discussion right now....
He answered by drawing a circle and stating "It is opposing forces."
One camp thinks it means to people meeting and you always make circles around their force.
The other camp correctly understands the classic model that it is sustained opposing forces within you (prior to any contact) that remains and manipulates their force on contact.

Hence my statement (and Ueshiba's) that aiki is not awase.
Hence, Shirata dividng the models as well, stating "Place the immovable body (aiki as opposing forces) an invincible position." (awase).
Hence, my phrase "Aiki in me before aiki between thee and me"

This is the age old model for producing a central dynamic balance in the body through solo training to sustain forces within yourself priorr to any contact-that makes aiki on contact. NOT MOVEMENT or FITTING IN.

As far as his ideas not being unique-I could go on and on. Another example being his phrases on ten units of force being managed by five and five or seven and three Which is a direct quote from the Tora no maki. Or again his use of the guest hand and host hand which is a direct quote right out of the Chen taiji treatise.

Again there are simple and more advanced means to do these things.

None of this ever addresses my other points.
You disagree? Fine.
You get it? Fine
Why don't you feel like Ueshiba?
To what degree or degrees are you on a path that makes soft power and aiki?
Why do all of your teachers we meet keep failing under testing by those who do understand these things?
If we are gonzo, making stuff up, and having personal epiphanies...why do all of our terms and concepts fit known terms and concepts used by martial artists in other cultures to produce power like the type Ueshiba had and yours don't?
Why is it that those of us embracing these things (things that you assign to some random personal epiphany) are producing greater soft power and aiki on a consistent basis? Why....good golly batman !!! Is it yet another wiz bang singular genius at work????
Or is it just yet another generation, learning the same ol stuff that produced other giants before us?

I don't have to bet on the later, I am proving it seminar after seminar against your teachers and now others are as well. It's really only a matter of time before you either embrace it, or stubbornly refuse to just out of spite and anger. Why do I say that? Because it has an almost 100% conversion rate. And why is THAT?
Because it's the best way to do

1. Why is it that -in person-none of you can match your rhetoric with action and results to match our rhetoric and results?
2. Why do you keep avoiding that question?
It certainly makes yet another compelling point for our case.

Last edited by DH : 10-23-2012 at 09:54 AM.
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