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Old 03-15-2005, 08:01 AM   #95
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
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Re: Ki Usage and O-Sensei: A Question

Quote:
Rob Liberti wrote:
6. Do most people in Aikido even care about the above discussions or are they unconcerned with what Aikido really was because they're happy with their current, possibly-incorrect-but-who-cares-as-long-as-I-get-to-wear-a-hakama-and-be someone-in-a-dojo, view?
Bingo.
Quote:
I choose option 7.
I think that while developing ridiculous kokyu power (like being able to do the jo trick) would be wonderful and interesting at parties -- and valuable in a real life martial situation -- no doubt; I tend to see it more as one of the false starts that O-sensei was took to an extreme before he concluded that he didn't need that much power to do aikido at its highest level. That's part of the path, especially when developing a system.

Here is a list of Japanese terms used to describe the stages of development in aikido:

First stage: Agatsu -- Self Mastery or "Correct Intention" - gets the mind in order -- in harmony with universal function.

Second stage: Masakatsu - harmonizes our body, our entire being, with universal order. This is shin-shin toitsu, mind-body unification.

The final stage: Katsu hayabi - puts the ki that unifies mind and body into harmony with universal order. There is no difference between oneself and anyone else.

Basically, if I am in the right place, at the right time, doing the right thing, I shouldn't need a whole lot of extra power. Having a whole lot of extra power by developing the second stage to an extreme would be nice and interesting, but not *my* main goal. When O-sensei explained for us to do what he doing towards the end of his career as opposed to what he used to do, we generally just think he meant - no need to do all of that pre-war hard style atemi-happy aikido, and go straight to grandpa-like movement. Maybe to some degree, but I think he *also* meant that taking that second level to such an extreme was unnecessary.
Ah... I think you're missing part of the main point, Rob. While I, as a westerner, may have the view that Ki and Kokyu power are supplemental strengths to martial arts, that is not what O-Sensei and many easterners think. They consider all the "harmony", "universal order", etc., to be missing if you don't have the Ki and Kokyu things. Ki and Kokyu are the "natural" powers that harmonize with the universe, Rob... you got it exactly backwards about the importance. Notice how the Ki training, etc., is tied into religion and if you want to learn it the deeper stuff comes through religious sources. In other words, your comments about extra power miss the importance of the Ki and Kokyu power and their place in O-Sensei's art. It was crucial. If it was just a toy, he would have taught everyone how to do it. He hid it. It was the core of the important part of Aikido, just as it's the hidden core, difficult-to-get-information-about part of most credible Asian arts. All the "mind-body" bits are part of the natural universal mechanism... the throws, blending, etc., are the superficial skin. You have the priorities reversed.

FWIW

Mike
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