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Ted Ehara wrote:
Next the subject again holds their arm out with a slight bend at the elbow joint. This time the subject imagines water or energy coursing through their arm and spouting out their fingertips. Another way is to imagine reaching for something. The tester again uses both hands to try and bend the subject's arm towards their shoulder. This time the subject succeeds in keeping the arm extended although they use less effort. By extending the focus of their mind instead of just using strength, the subject maintains mind and body coordination.
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Thanks, Ted. Basically, you have said that by imagining a certain scenario, something happens that introduces a real and palpable force that a partner can feel. If a partner can feel it and it opposes his attempts to bend someone's arm, then an ordinary weight-scale or other devices can measure the change in resistive forces. The question now becomes:
"What is causing the resistive forces? Is it a measureable dynamic involving some form of muscle contraction, or something along those lines? Or is it some mysterious Force that has entered your body because of your correct mindset and that force (or *something* other than your physical body) is countering the pulldown of your opponent." Can you give us an idea of what you think is physically happening, Ted? I think the most productive conversation will go in that direction.
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Trouble in River City - While able to keep an unbendable arm with one arm, the subject tries to use both arms with a tester on each arm and fails. It becomes apparent that the mind switches between the two arms and cannot extend ki using both arms.
After some experimentation it becomes clear that if the subject holds out their arms and relaxes completely or thinks of one point, they can maintain the two unbendable arms. The fault is in thinking, "Now I am extending ki." This is not an act that is performed, but if one is relaxed completely, ki will be naturally extended.
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I have encountered something quite similar. A newbie can demonstrate power in one arm, or some limited manner (doesn't have to be just in an arm) and they can't do it in a more complex manner. After they train correctly and practice (i.e., they become more familiar and more experienced) they can exhibit these things in complex manners...like doing it in two arms... it just implies some practice. They may not think "one point", but they are indeed relaxing, keeping their qi sunk, and their mind iis automatically performing in the unusual method of establishing relaxed paths of force to where they are needed. Naturally, like in any skill, the amount of force generated along relaxed paths is limited at first and workouts are kept to a "no-load" condition so that the body can adjust to this different mode of movement and handling things. So we have two scenarios of doing two things... are those things the same? If they are the same thing (and it would be surprising if two people doing relaxed "unbendable arms" weren't doing the same thing *and* a number of other "ki tests"), then what is the commonality? HOW does this work in actuality, Ted? Are you positing an unknown force or do you think it's physical?
Secondly, you're saying "This is not an act that is performed, but if one is relaxed completely, ki will be naturally extended." Surely you realize that there are a lot of "relaxed" people (let's say people who do meditation, etc.) who can't do the "unbendable arm" trick? Wouldn't you agree that there is more to it than just being completely relaxed?
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In the advanced ki tests, the tester extends ki towards the subject. The advice given to pass is to do nothing. By relaxing and doing nothing, you let your natural ki extension manifest itself in its most powerful, primal form.
If your test was as if the tester was totally ignore and you imagine yourself just standing alone, that would be the best results. There is no redistribution of pressure or bracing against a possible push. You simply put yourself into a natural state of being.
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The essence of the discussion, going back to the Taigi demonstration, is that "extending ki" somehow affected the timing of the performance of a given Taigi. I would say "using ki", etc., as a preference to "extending ki" because it's a too-broad and too-vague statement. Also, "simply put yourself into a natural state of being" sounds good, but let's go back again to the idea of someone just being relaxed and keeping their focus on their center, as meditaters, yogis, etc., do.... they still can't resist a push. The question again is "what is physically happening?", Ted. There's more to it than can be covered by "natural state of being". Remember you objected to my saying that Tohei's ki things were too vague? I mean it in the same sense that your explanations are using very vague terms. If these things (or *some* of these things, if you'd prefer) are in the physical world, subject to the laws of physics, we should be able to put a handle on them, I think. I can do these things and somewhat more, Ted... so let's dispense with the idea Craig offered that I wouldn't understand and try to look at it as finding a commonality in terms.
"Extending Ki" contains, I think (based on what I've gathered so far), the reason why Tohei was reportedly able to duplicate the jo trick. I.e., I think "extend ki" contains more than you realize at the moment. If it contains all these things, then the vagueness of applying it to a Taigi performance should be easily agreed as a valid perspective, wouldn't you agree?
Regards,
Mike Sigman