Thread: hold downs?
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Old 12-07-2001, 09:31 PM   #7
Dojo: Hans de Jong Self Defence School
Location: Perth
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 239
Okay one problem is the common misinterpretation of non-violence. We do not start violence we end it and the amount of force uke uses, determines the amount of force we use "against" him. So what is wrong with breaking a bone or dislocation a shoulder if it keeps you alive, you haven't killed anyone, and yes you can do that in the most extreme circumstances. Of course we would like to avoid these thing but it's hard sometimes.
Now "projection" techniques by there nature are to get rid of someone. They become useful against multiple attackers. If you want to control someone then you use a control. Now yes we do apply an osae after kote gaeshi but one thing I have never see O'sensei use it either in footage of him or in his books except in suwari waza where uke is pined on his back. So this might suggest the technique we use to turn uke over while standing may have added later.
Lastly ne waza aren't all that great just look at BJJ there are endless escapes a counters form them. I am not saying in some situations there not useful but they usually don't completely control uke's hands/arms so on the street where he is not bound by rules, he can hit, scratch, pull and a few other attacks.
So the mostly face down pins are used because the do in fact 'control' uke and not just 'suppress' or 'pin' him. That said if you have John Stevens Invincible Warrior, on page 177 (in my book it is so Irimi Nage Variation 2) you will see O'sensei performing Kata Gatame, a slightly modified one but still Kata Gatame. It is important to note that he does still have control over his uke's hands
To the last question about learning ne waza, they are part of the Yoseikan curriculum.

Please note I have edited my post as I said the technique was Kesa Gatame and it is in fact Kata Gatame.

Last edited by wildaikido : 12-08-2001 at 08:39 AM.

Graham Wild
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