Thread: Chinkon Kishin
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:31 AM   #150
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Chinkon Kishin

Quote:
Mark Raugas wrote: View Post
.. into the wee hours of the night... regarding the mechanical explanations Erik is making, I think Erik is pushing the bar way too far than what is needed. ...
Sagawa is wrong, then, about how intensely one should dwell on this??

Quote:
Mark Raugas wrote: View Post
The comment about the micro-structure or micro-action of muscles is probably not relevant because the mini-firings are averaged out on the distance scales we are considering in a front-push -- much as the physics of a gas on classical scales is not measured by the individual properties of each molecule in the gas but in bulk properties of pressure, volume, and temperature.
Probably? Not so. They do not "average" -- there is no linear function on which an average would have any statistical meaning.The fact that the system has a dynamic control and a peak attractor does not make the concept of average useful.

Quote:
Mark Raugas wrote: View Post
This simplification over scale is actually a very generic property of physical systems -- be they fluids, solids, or gases -- and why we can do classical mechanics at all.
Chaotic systems break scaling laws, especially supercritical ones. Hurricanes and tornados are emergent structures, not "averages" of the system. Classical mechanics cannot trivially predict the path of a three pendulum harmonic system -- which is what we all work with to balance. Simple structure, complex behavior

Quote:
Mark Raugas wrote: View Post
Just because the finer grained structure is there, does not mean it is relevant for the particular problem. It might be relevant if we were talking about responding to a change in the angle of a push, once equilibrium has been reached, not how to reach equilibrium in the first place.
You did not even read what I gave you. Your assumption is not true. You are not in equilibrium, you are never in equilibrium -- you pass from greater to lesser imbalance and back incessantly and the physical locus of the "equilibrium" point also shifts with every adjustment. Literally, bipedal equilibrium is a moving target you approach but NEVER get to, and are always in the process of not falling away from.

Any model that presumes equilibrium of human stability is NOT FACTUAL. It is very limited metaphor, nothing more. The fact that we get good at and have a remarkable illusion of stability by dynamic control does not change the nature of our supercritically, unstable structure, any more than a bike stays upright merely because it is balanced between two wheels.

Chinkon kishin kokyu undo are, in my view, movements that bring that process to scales where we can access its rudiments to alter its use for martial purposes, or so I have learned. I will freely acknowledge that what Ark teaches may do something similar. With a system as complex as it is, I would be surprised if there were not many more ways to access it in addition.

Quote:
Mark Raugas wrote: View Post
... it is very noticeable that you did not respond to Dan's put up or shut up remark.
Yes. Just as noticeable as that he does little else in response. I find it a matter of no small irony that those whose incessant refrain is to say I have to "feel" to understand what they mean, can mysteriously reach through the data packets and feel me. I'm having none of it, one, because it is crass and rude, and more to the point because this is not the forum for it.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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