Thread: Chinkon Kishin
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:50 PM   #140
Dojo: TNBBC (Icho Ryu Aiki Budo), Shinto Ryu IaiBattojutsu
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 927
Re: Chinkon Kishin

Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Have you flown? It is in my bank of experience of physical stability problems and applied power. Boring or not, it does apply.
I'm not a pilot, but I have been on a plane. I also have a BS in Physics with a minor in Applied Mathematics and completed all requirements to enter any Physical Therapy program in the country, including almost 400 hours of volunteer time in clinics. I think in mechanics. Your random feats of awesomeness with all things avionic seem completely out of sorts in what *I* am talking about. For example, your description about fooling ones balance through subtle manipulations has to do with physiological phenomena of the vestibular canals and our visual references. It has about as much to do with this discussion as how if you stand in a doorway and press your arms into the door for 30 seconds, then step forward, your arms will 'magically' rise of their own accord. That's completely different from two people standing on stationary ground. It's completely different. Let me put that another way. It's completely different.

Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Read Sagawa again about the limits of the "applicable" in budo. Read him also about moving from art to art and understanding to understanding, rather than building on what you know, that you know to work, instead of what others promise works that you do not know. His point -- they know nothing better than you can know it -- if you do your own steady and self-honest work.
Hmm, I kind of took Sagawa to be saying that most people were lazy and had no idea what they were actually doing, and that only through intense personal dedication and *impatience with their own training and development* would they amount to anything. That's paraphrasing, but that's how I read him. I certainly did not take him to be saying that everyone's opionion and quality of information/understanding was equal.

Erick Mead wrote: View Post
What was it I said about personality types drawn to the form of training you seem to prefer? "Marked impatience in their training goals."? Ambition is admirable, but can you honestly think you learned everything that the chinkon kishin kokyu undo had to teach, given that the way you came to understand it, and then abandoned it in frustration, seems from your description to be just about 180 degrees out from the way it was given to me?
I never said I learned everythin that the chinkon kishin had to teach. I specifically said that it probably had more that I could have gotten out of it, but that the *teaching methodology* did not work for me. I did not abandon it out of some melodramatic frustration, it just didn't do anything for me. Could you describe to me what sort of training I prefer? I don't think you have any idea how patient you have to be to train the way I do.

I'm confused, when you say my description is 180 degrees out of phase, what description are you talking about? If you're talking about my wave analogy (that you quoted) I would ask you to comment on how you reconcile your analogy of being a surfer riding a wave with OSensei's description with the archetype for non-confrontation in Aikido (where your attacker becomes a parter who you control only). Who here is out of line with the founder's vision for Aikido?

Chris Moses
TNBBC, "Putting the ME in MEdiocre!"
Budo Tanren at Seattle School of Aikido
Shinto Ryu Iai-Battojutsu
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