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Old 06-14-2010, 09:10 AM   #63
Location: ATL
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 847
Re: Ki Aikido - quote from Gleason Sensei

Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Not trying to be argumentative, but rather trying to find the underlying research. What portion of an uchideshi's day was spent on training? While they may have spent 14 hours a day in duties, it would be nice to know what portion was actual training. Do you know what articles reference this or their training?
I believe it was his in his interviews on AJ.

I'd agree that Shioda and the other students did a lot of trying to figure things out, but we have to also remember that Shioda went to Kodo and a lot of what Shioda demonstrates is very close to Kodokai material. We probably won't ever know how much Shioda learned from Ueshiba or Kodo.
I could be mistaken, but I believe their meeting was well after Shioda had already made a name for himself and had some skill. I agree as far as ever knowing just what he learned.

To get that good, I think we both agree that Ueshiba was obsessive about training. I think he did a lot of "solo training". Which brings up the question of where is all that solo training now, in modern aikido?
Well, I think that's what Tohei tried to do with the taiso. While he gets credit for developing the taiso, he did so under the watchful eye and with the approval of Ueshiba, based on things Ueshiba himself did. The problem is that it doesn't seem like many people actually knew what they were supposed to be doing or feeling in the Taiso and even further, most people view those as warmups, not solo exercises. Then again, how many people ever ask?

I guess we'll disagree here. Because after working solo exercises and paired exercises, I can see where most, if not all, aikido training can house aiki. Not as currently done in modern aikido but that's because aiki is missing and "replacement" moves (i.e. jujutsu principles) were used to fill in the gaps. This is where "timing" and "body placement" came into being in aikido. Look at the quote I posted about yonkyo being a body exercise, not a technique. Modern aikido uses yonkyo as a technique. Things changed, but it isn't about yonkyo being fluff. Instead, it's about revamping yonkyo to become what it was originally intended.

All the "warm up" exercises? Definitely can be used to build aiki. All the "techniques"? Why are they sooooo different than koryu jujutsu? They weren't really jujutsu after all, but vehicles/houses for the foundation of training aiki. No fluff in the kata/waza/techniques. Just missing the foundation of aiki.
I don't see any disagreement , just a misunderstanding of my use of the term fluff, but that's not problem. As far as how this training relates to Aikido, I think we're in perfect agreement. I now see things like the taiso and the actual waza can be used to build these skills and I think that was most definitely Ueshiba's intention. I can't say I'm really convinced that htey're the most efficient way, but if one wanted to keep what they're doing strictly in the aikdo realm, I think there's definitely enough meat there to get something as long as you have like minded partners and good instruction at the top.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I met Dan in 2006. Prior to that, I was not in the group of people arguing with him for years. Sometime in 2006 (if memory serves me right. I doubt it was 2005), I had a run of posts with Dan on E-Budo leading up to me meeting him in Oct. That was the first mention of Dan that I had. The archives are out there for all to check. Wasn't me arguing with Dan/Mike/Rob/etc.
Sorry for confusing you with someone else then, either way, I'm glad there were plenty of other people out there who did the arguing, else I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today.
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