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Old 08-25-2011, 08:44 AM   #17
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: The continuing Aikido or Non aikido aiki debate and what is or isn't aiki

Quote:
Toby Threadgill wrote: View Post
Hi Dan,
LOL.....Delusion and rationalization are powerful forces in life.
I agree that there will be some in aikido that follow the train of thought you outline, but there are other, more grounded individuals, that will resist the rationalizations you describe. Not everyone will trundle happily down aikido's version of the "primrose path".

Regards,
Toby Threadgill / TSYR
Hey Tobs
Actually I think most will follow that model to one degree or another. It's not an issue of lack of integrity or acknowledgement. it's a natural process of very talented people. My personal goals were to give them the tools to bring aiki back into their arts in a more profound way and let them run with it and also point them to other people as well. It's natural that they get a sense of ownership. I had a conversation with a fellow the other day who commented that in a mix that either he or I would go down. I thought to myself...you have never thrown me a day in your life and I have let you try and I was never even doing much to stop you.
What made him think that much has changed in the time we had trained together? His improvements!! Though they were made from my instruction they were based on his own work and his deeper understanding of things he already knew and had trained. That is where my points come to the forefront of the discussion.

My instruction awakened in him his own teachers movements, and now a deeper understanding of them and what he had been taught. It goes like this: while he gives credit to me, he thinks to himself, "Wait, I already know this stuff because my teacher did it and I have felt it and can do it to a degree."
I taught several Koryu guys who looked at me and said "oh my God that is ___________in my art," while person two says "holy crap that is____________in my art." Both say "That is how we move. No wonder I have had trouble with that, I've just been focused on the kata steps."
Last, I have had a number of people in ICMA and JMA that all have solo training. They do it....yet, they have no real power. I show them how those things are supposed to be done.
They think "Wow, this is what I was supposed to be feeling..."
and they remember their teacher.

These days I think it's like handing them a key to open the door to what they were supposed to be doing. They are full of wonder, busy making it work, feeling things inside, sharing, talking, bringing it into their practice, training with others and looking at a body of work that is bigger than us all, but they really had no actual ability to see it all before. Now, all of their hard work, sweat, failure, trying and testing brings about a sense of ownership, as it should.
There are many many examples of this.
I mentioned Ueshiba, but look at all of Takeda's guys. Every one of them said he was amazing, and in their next breath started talking about how they saw more and went beyond him.
On any other day I will credit where I got what, but I am fully capable of showing what the model was and how I discovered this or that and changed the bodywork. I did this with four people from Daito ryu, who recognized core principles but were clueless to see what it really meant and where it could go.
The Chinese arts are full of these same stories. I've lost track of the examples of master class guys saying..."everyone else didn't get this or that, I realized thus and such on my own..." It's the nature of the work. One of the reaons they call it "Exploring the internal landscape."

In none of the examples above are the people ungrateful users (I'm very grateful for what I have been given). Again, it's just the nature of the work. The work reveals the truth, which reveals the truth in many other arts. It's the reason Ueshiba said "Takeda opened my eyes to true Budo."

Once your eyes are opened, you see these things everywhere. It was never about one individual.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-25-2011 at 08:57 AM.
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