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Old 06-02-2012, 11:55 AM   #290
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Re: Spiritual and i/p

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
My basic view is as you no doubt have heard before that Ueshiba was a very spiritual man who realized the spiritual cause and ways of things and could demonstrate that via Aikido, saying it is merely a manifestation of such.

Beyond that however and the main point I would like to make is that thereafter as Aikido devloped and spread you ended up with two main types. One type emphasized the spiritual or Ki aspects and the other emphasized the physical.
Graham, you must have missed me to throw out such a passive aggressive bunch of statements when you just said you were through with this thread.

Frankly, your statement is quite ignorant but I only say so because it appears to be perfectly willful. First, there are no "different types" of aikido. There is just aikido--like there's "just gold". The only question is: "Is it real aikido or a fake?"

But to work with your own classifications, no one could better exemplify the "physical" type of aikido than Minoru Mochizuki, yet he was a deeply spiritual man, deeply educated and respected by people of every nation and he was one of the closest personal friends Morihei Ueshiba ever had.

During the war, he was not a military man but was deputy governor of three provinces in Mongolia, managing many cities. To keep those cities safe from communist army attacks, he trained "folk doctors" and stationed them in the countryside around each city. The hard-working local people would come to the folk doctors with their injuries and ailments, and because the doctors helped them, they developed a great trust not only for the doctors but for Minoru Mochizuki. When communist troops moved anywhere in the rural areas, the locals told the folk doctors, who sent runners to the affected cities. If military action was required to defend the cities, the defenders went out and met the attackers outside the cities, thus sparing the people from street-to-street fighting within their cities.

Sensei built bridges and irrigation systems to uplift the Mongolian people and after the war, he maintained contacts with them. When I lived in Shizuoka, he took in a young Mongolian woman who was studying at the local university and let her stay in the dojo, alerting all the yakuza to leave her alone. She was under his protection.

He received other Mongolians at the dojo as well, and when he came to Alabama in the late 1980s, he gave out some materials for Mongolian rare earth mining concerns to try to uplift the Mongolian economy. He remained a friend to the Mongolian people all his life. He was deeply versed in world religions and esoteric Japanese history.

Why would Morihei Ueshiba favor such a person, famous for his judo and ken jutsu skills? It was simply because Morihei Ueshiba respected very personally powerful people. Think of Tenryu for another example.

But show me one "spiritual" person, with pathetic physical abilities who gained the respect of OSensei.

I don't think you can.

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Ki Aikido and and offshoots like yours for example tend to attract more spiritually free people, it resonates more with those kind of people.
What does that mean--"spiritually free"???

That, again, is a passive-aggressive shot at people who do yoseikan, yoshinkan, iwama and other styles that maintain excellent aikido technique. Everyone here can see that. Don't you realize that?

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
The more physical emphasized styles tend to attract the more fighting kind of people.
Graham, it sounds like you've been in a lot more fights than I have. I've never tussled with anyone on the street or elsewhere. The meaning of serious budo is "to stop the fight," but that requires real physical ability. What don't you understand about that?

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Thus the physical tend to see the others as weaker and the more spiritual tend to see the physical as brutish and stupid.
What a bizarre generalization, man. Who do you think sees Koichi Tohei as "weak"?

The fact is that it appears that many of the dojo descending from Tohei did devolve into weakness simply because they did not understand the fundamental truth that Japanese spirituality is based on a union of mind, body and ki. They (and apparently you) believe that we can develop great powers of mind and ki without developing the body to the same degree. And in aikido, this is done through physical aikido technique. The budo way to develop the mind and ki is through the body.

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Now on the other side of the coin you have the problem with the fighting side. The downside here is that it also attracts the control freaks, the mini despots.
That's a good one, Graham! We had a guy on here not long ago whom I have actually met. My nickname for him was "L'il Hitler" because he is such a control freak. Like you, he likes to talk about concepts like takimiso aiki, defending translations of writings he can't read, demanding universal respect for the authority behind his own lineage while slandering many far greater teachers.

And I can assure you, I have suffered far more cheap shots and opportunistic attempts to injure me in the schools that emphasize their fantasies of "spirituality" over the gold standard of developing the spirit through training the body. Control freaks and cheap shot artists with smug, superior smiles.

You may have all those you want. Ueshiba would not have given them the time of day.

Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Actually now, with I/P you have an influence which will probably atrract both airy fairy and control freaks as it's downside.
You're killing me, Graham. Again, you assert knowledge of IP. See your own post, two up.

It's an enjoyable read.


Last edited by David Orange : 06-02-2012 at 11:59 AM.

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