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Old 05-17-2009, 09:31 PM   #47
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
Re: O sensei and 'correct ukemi'

Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
OK. Why did both Takeda and Ueshiba always use kata / waza as a teaching tool, if they did not really need to?

Hi Peter.

If I was a very cynical person, I'd probably answer that they used kata/waza/techniques as a diversion to cover for the secret "aiki" stuff. Or Takeda did it just to make money.

But, I'm not that cynical. I'll address my reply to all rather than single you out. I'm not sure I can handle a debate at your level.

I think that the jujutsu level stuff that both Takeda and Ueshiba taught could be used as competent self defense techniques. As many on these forums have posted throughout the years, it isn't "aikido" that failed, but the person.

However, as many have experienced, "aikido" doesn't work against someone who is skilled in aiki (the internal body skills). Plus, there are many articles about competent jujutsu/judo people being handled like children by Takeda and Ueshiba. It was either Tohei or Tomiki who trained by kicking beams in a house then going back to Judo and faring very well. Didn't help when meeting Ueshiba. Another article about Tomiki being manhandled and thrown all over the place.

Maybe Takeda and Ueshiba taught the techniques because it gave them something worthwhile to give to their students without divulging the secrets of the art.

And then Ueshiba went a different route from Takeda's Daito ryu. He became the avatar of the kami, the bridge between heaven and earth, etc. But, the simple fact was that being the avatar or the bridge without other people is useless. I think Ueshiba needed people to fulfill his mission, or whatever you want to call it. The problem is that untrained people could get hurt. So, maybe he trained them to the point where he could use them safely and allow him to be that avatar or bridge.

Back to the question, we find that old school jujutsu people couldn't compare to Takeda. Judo people couldn't compare to Ueshiba. How many techniques or kata did all these people know? How many techniques or kata did the kendo people know when they came to learn from Ueshiba?

Doesn't it make you wonder why all these people from all the various backgrounds full of kata and techniques couldn't compare to Takeda or Ueshiba?

Or why each school of Daito ryu has different techniques? Why each school of aikido has different techniques?

If the core skills, if the secrets of the art, if what made Takeda and Ueshiba stand out were in the techniques/kata/waza, then why could most who knew all these myriads of techniques not compare to them?

As a parallel, why is it that Mifune looks and moves differently than all other judo people when they all knew the same kata/techniques?

Could there be a possibility that there really is something "hidden" in a Japanese martial art? That what was shown and taught to most was not the "full" art? And could it be possible that there is a specific internal body skill, aiki, that wasn't taught to many? If there is that possibility, then isn't it also likely that all the techniques taught to the masses did not have that secret?

It is an interesting question that you asked. While I can only point to articles and interviews as research material, they are, after all, secondhand information. Why did Takeda and Ueshiba teach techniques?