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Old 08-23-2008, 09:39 PM   #27
Buck
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 950
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Re: Defending Against Grappler Using Aikido

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
Phil,

Lots of over generalizations and assumptions I think. Specificallly about what aikido is/isn't and what MMA is/isn't.
I think that holds true more for many MMA, don't you with all these types of threads?

I would have to respectfully disagree because I am comment in the context of the thread.

Quote:

Couple of comments:

1. You essentially state that MMA came from sport and aikido came from combat. Not necessarily true.

What you define as MMA (UFC type venues), actually are composites of many things (hence the MMA label). All traditional Sport systems, Greco-Roman, Judo, Free-style wrestling, TKD, Sambo, BJJ...all have their roots in Military or Martial Arts.
Sports like track and field, football and soccer, and things like, Go, Chess are martial for example too. The name MMA doesn't accurately represent the sport. There are no rules that say you have to use any specific fighting style. It is a sport, there are judges, rules, refs, a playing field and all the things that make it a sport. It should be call something like free style fighting, and not MMA because it is about fighting in a subscribed way. Honestly, I don't understand your point.

The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP), which BTW had much influence on it from Heckler-Strozzi Sensei, and The Modern Army Combatives Program (MACP) are true MMA philosophically based "Arts" have sport aspects to them, yet are designed to build warriors and instill/refine warrior ethos. Oh yea, and give some really cool skillz.

I thought it was based on BJJ and not MMA. The Marines I thought for decades used MMA for training. A mix of Karate, Judo, Jujitsu, and it included ground fighting skills too, etc. I don't know why the Marines want to switch to something that is highly specialized and narrow as taking the enemy to the ground. Why didn't they model after Krav Maga, proven not in a sports arena but by the Israeli Defense Forces. It is a MMA. Just because there is a change doesn't mean it is a good change.
Quote:
Drawing a line between sport and combat arts simply is not that easy and too dismissive concerning the importance that "sport" and competition play in the bigger picture of development of a person/martialist.
But it is, a sport has rules, judges, ref. rules a playing field, or ring, it is a controlled competition. The goal is to win the competition and no one is seriously hurt or is killed, sportsmanship (well...can't have everything). The philosophy of sports share a common thread in Aikido, don't kill the other guy or team. Gee... O'Sensei was on to something wasn't he . Boy the idea of being civilized did work out for Aikido, cause today in most countries killing or injuring someone you happen to be fighting with is frown upon and can get you jail time. The US is sue happy, dang if ya took a guy to the ground and did some "ground and pound" or threw a blood choke on him or her for taking a parking place you wanted, You'd facing a Judge who isn't going to look fondly on what you did over a paking space.

Quote:

Well apparently allot of Aikidoka DO care, as this is discussed allot here on aikiweb. Do I? not really, as from my definition of MMA aikido is methodology I use, as is BJJ, as is Judo, as is Greco Roman, as is Aunkai...all apart of MMA.
No, that isn't true. Allot of these threads are started by MMA guys, and it is only a handful of Aikidoka who care to answer. Do you realize how many people practice Aikido? If Aikido people cared there would be hundreds of Aikido people posting. The Aikido world is just not limited to that of Aikiweb.

Quote:
don't lose at any cost?

"not lose at any cost"....that is really not part of the aikido philosophy now is it?
Your are right it isn't. What I was saying in a life and death high pressure situation where you are being targeted it is your instincts to survive, to protect yourself that makes you fight back, and not accept the victimization like you would getting the employee of the month award. You will fight and not lose at any cost. Unless you feel completely over powered and in some cases over whelmed with fear for your life. The relates to MMA and Aikido, depending on your level of and how your where trained, there is a high probability under a high-stress situation of life and death if you find yourself on top of the threat you will resort to what MMA has termed "ground and pound." Ground and pound is a very common almost instinctive way of fighting on the ground. You see allot of it on Youtube in women's street fights. It is instinctive as pulling hair and biting. So you will do what ever it takes to fight off an attack, you will NOT lose at any cost. This was all said in support of Ellis's comments. MMA doesn't deal at all in practice or principle for woman about to be raped- as Ellis referred to, use a hair pin and stab into the ear to stab the brain. MMA is about defeating your fellow competitor in the ring, and if you or your fellow competitor matched up by similar weight, size, and forte become too badly injured, or at the point submission the fight is stopped and a winner declared. Which the top fight venues are televised and UFC is making money hand over fist- can’t forget the purse money either.

Many MMA guys don't think there is a world outside a MMA fight. For them MMA is the be all and end all in fighting, and nothing else could possible exist. Very myopic isn't it? It is the same type of true criticism that some Aikidokas get for having their heads in the clouds. It is true for both that there are those who are not grounded in the reality of a high pressure life and death situation. Or understand that Aikido isn't and wasn't designed as a sport or a sports fighting venue.

I appreciate your response. It was a good one. Enjoyed the exhange.

Last edited by Buck : 08-23-2008 at 09:46 PM.
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