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Old 06-26-2008, 10:32 AM   #160
Erick Mead
 
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
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Re: Aikido™ and Aiki…do. Where are we at?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Eric
As a relentlessly pragmatic guy-let me ask you a theoretical question. How do you arrive at telling me I am "exploring areas that have no map?"
I didn't invent anything-I followed.
From your DTR background -- Sagawa, whom you quote, is quite "clear" that the only "map" he gave was rudimentary at best. In the system as he taught it -- either people get it on their own by observing its action in the process of the system per se -- or they don't -- and he seems not really too concerned about that one way or the other ... Nor was Takeda for that matter.

Quote:
Sagawa -- 'Clear Power' wrote:
I don't teach everything, and I can't teach everything. What I can teach is the foundation of how the skeletal system works. How your muscles and organs work upon that frame is for you to ponder and discover on your own. You can't simply fight using your bones alone.
This is why you can't simply do things as you are told. You must add the "meat" to this frame and widen your view. It's a funny thing, you can learn all there is to learn, but unless you grasp it for yourself you will never be able to actually "do" it.
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
If we are discussing models. I think you suffer for lack of skill and understanding. I know of no one who will vet you, or state your Aiki skills are of a high level or extraordinary in any way. This is, of course coupled with your self professed inability to do many of the things we and others state we can do.
Non sequitur. You can discuss models or you make your ad hominem lacking any evidence for it -- but they are not the same thing - nor remotely related. And repeatedly misrepresenting my statements is neither germane -- nor particularly nice.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
In light of that and in context of the thread, what value is there in anything you have to say?
Why don't you take apart what I have ACTUALLY said (instead of recasting it for mere rhetorical effect , which was the reason, you will recall, for my criticism) and see for yourself? I am only interested in properly framing the concept of Aiki for a western understanding:

Quote:
Yukioshi Sagawa -- "Clear Power" wrote:
However, if you train too much before you grasp the concept of Aiki, then this is no good.
Dan. Articulate the concept of Aiki.

I do not pretend this is the same as someone grasping what you or I mean by it, but, if it is to be useful tot he analytic Western mind , IT MUST BE ARTICULATED even if in succinct terms -- to aid its ultimate grasp in practice -- otherwise people are just being led in the darkness. A flash of lighting does not get one to the shelter at the top of the hill but it reveals the lay of the land to the observant.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Further, you have stated plainly that you think the yudansha; including 5th and 6th dans and Menkyos who have felt these things are incompetent or incapable to judge or have been hood winked by personal charm or charisma.
Horse hockey. There you go again -- specifically misrepresenting my statement -- in this very thread. http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=130
Quote:
Erick Mead wrote:
Rhetoric is not argument.

Dan seems to persuade people he meets, whether he does so with real points of substantive difference from the aiki in aikido training that we know, a gifted insight into that training that many have simply missed, or merely with charisma, charm and a talent with magician's arts, none of it is proved by that.
In my part of the world, we are taught to treat people we do not know as hospitably as we can under the circumstances. I hesitate to doubt your upbringing and cast your ancestors into disrepute, so I will assume it is a unfortunately frequent lapse. I give you the benefit of any doubt, and you on the other hand, proceed with your doubt as a firm conviction.

You need to read the situation before you respond to it, my friend. Some people might take it the wrong way. That's bad budo, and in that respect it doesn't matter who you are or what you can do -- it is suki and you need to correct it -- whether in this forum or any other. As ot the merits of my criticism, well let someone else say it ...

Quote:
Sagawa wrote:
<If you decide because> others tell you so, or influence you, then it's no good. You must hold your own counsel. Decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong.
No matter how accomplished a person is, he is never perfect. Never hold what he says to be gospel. If you do, then it will obstruct your own determination to innovate and find things out for yourself. You must take what you learn, and then innovate it based on your own ideas.
...
No matter how much you learn something, if it is simply taught to you, you will forget it. However you will never forget something you acquire for yourself. It becomes you.
One reason I take no offense, is that I am continually fascinated with this recurring response by you, as I am 1) not attacking what you are doing , nor 2) doubting your bona fides in doing what you say, but simply examining a physical model of things, and suggesting that the model exists within the tradition as it stands, if properly seen. That is no threat to you or what you propose so why the animosity?

Quote:
Sagawa wrote:
There are many things in this world that people still do not understand, so you must not have any pre-conceptions about things. This applies to Aiki as well. This is why I can continue to innovate and change my Aiki.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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