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Old 10-20-2010, 12:23 PM   #24
George S. Ledyard
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
Re: Kaeshiwaza Sample Clip - George Ledyard

Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
I suppose that what I would have wanted to see in the video was a situation where George's partner really went after his center with a waza, it doesn't matter which one, and then was satisfied, if only momentarily, that the waza was on track---only to find that G was able to absorb the force and would come back at him with the reversal. What I think I see here is a waza that never began to bite. And so it does seem odd to me to call it a reversal.

Sacrifice throws, to my mind, would be one kind of waza that would be closer to this definition of reversal.

Now I understand that there are limitations imposed by the teaching format, so this particular clip is fine for me, as far as it goes. I am hoping that in the rest of the DVD or in future DVDs, there would be other scenarios/examples of a more energetic exchange between tori and uke.
Ok, I need to explain this again. His technique didn't "bite" because I was "inside" his power before he could take my center. It looks like he wasn't trying, I know. That is not what is really happening. If you have had a chance to take ukemi from someone who is really high level, you'd have had the feeling that, no matter what you do, you never feel like you did a good attack. The nage is messing with you long before contact is made.

This is much the same. By the time nage touched me, it was already mine. This has a lot to do with the fact that there was no break in connection after I had "target lock on" and initiated the attack, in this case the tsuki, and when nage avoided the attack and grabbed my wrist. The instant he touched me he was part of a back flow that went "inside" his power from my center.

This clip was just a sample filmed when I was teaching a class to some folks who are already quite familiar with these principles. So little explanation of the "how to" sort was required. It was more how to apply principles they already understood in the role of nage to the role of uke. The material on the first Kaeshiwaza DVD set I've done has a bit more "how to" but states on the cover that a familiarity of the material covered in several of the earlier videos I've done. Skipping straight to the kaeshiwaza material won't make much sense to folks without that knowledge.

Let me say that looking at kaeshiwaza as how one recovers from having the other guy take ones center is only a rudimentary understanding of the concept. A really skilled opponent will not let you recover once he's got you. Even a sacrifice throw demands some mistake or opening on the part of nage. If he doesn't give you that, he has you.

The real goal is to never lose your center in the first place. A real counter takes place the instant the nage puts his hands on you. So you won't see anything that looks like a good developing technique because it never gets to develop, it's gone in the instant he touches me.

There has been a lot of discussion of "internal power" on this forum. Dan H has talked at length about developing the structure to be "unthrowable". Well, it's not about just not being throwable because your structure is so immovable... you still have to strike or throw the opponent. Now I don't have anything more than the most basic idea of how to use my internal structure the way the real internal power guys like Mike S and Dan H can. That's something I am currently working on. So I don't have anywhere near the power they have. But even with the little I have done, it's not so easy to break my balance, even when I am moving. You are sure not going to do it by torquing on my wrist, which is the level of most people's kotegaeshi.

What I am doing here would qualify as "power neutralization" which is a related but separate issue from "internal skills" and can be done using methods that are subtle but still technically would be considered external power, simply because of the way I am generating the movement.

Anyway, perhaps Ikeda Sensei is right that you have to feel it before it makes any sense. Like all really good technique, it looks fake until you get to feel it. That certainly is my own goal... I want to have a level of technique that looks completely fake to someone watching and which is somewhat incomprehensible, and therefore un-counterable to my opponent. I want him wondering after that fact, why he fell down at all.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 10-20-2010 at 12:26 PM.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
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