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Old 01-08-2012, 06:41 PM   #58
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
Re: Why don't we practice chokes?

Well, just to toss something out as an ex-researcher... Studies like that are great however one must also step back and look at a larger picture. What is the question they are trying to answer? In this case it is about what is happening when a police officer applies a "standard" type of choke.

In my experience as taught to police the restraint is quite "crude" compared to how some highly trained people are able to apply something like hadaka jime (and I am not in that group myself either). You will hear stories of those (repeated in this thread as well) who are seemingly able to apply it in a very subtle way that seems to cause unconsciousness to come on faster than otherwise expected. I'll also add my anecdotal observation with myself that one time a very skilled elderly judoka did it to me I had this feeling like "hmmm, he's very gentle" and then I woke up later. My *impression* was that it came on very quickly (too quickly) and possibly without the tunnel vision beforehand. And I'll add I remember him doing the same sort of "jiggling" movement others have mentioned right before I went night-night. However, it is hard to say because, well, who knows what ya miss when you go unconscious...

So... If we assume the choke holds are being done by a police officer with normal officer training I don't think I'd expect anything particularly interesting beyond what they found. So in terms of constructing an experiment the question they answered here was (most likely) that the average police officer is achieving unconsciousness in the subject via directly cutting off blood flow. I would say that's not surprising. The bigger question for me as someone who's experienced it differently a few times is what is happening with some of these highly trained guys with a very subtle technique? Are they getting more? Are they adding some whipped cream and a cherry on top of an otherwise very effective chocolate sundae... Yeah, I'm hungry. I hate diets...

I know I don't have the skill to pull off what I've seen others do. But I can easily choke someone out from a hadaka jime and most anyone can be taught how to do it literally in minutes. The question I'm interested in is whether there is a difference between a "normal" application and some of the highly skilled applications?

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