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Old 05-29-2012, 04:50 PM   #186
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
Re: Spiritual and i/p

Conrad Gustafson wrote: View Post

No argument here.

a. Point taken, and I'll remember this for future threads. I'd be curious who else you would put on the list, inside or outside of aikido.
b. I left it out on purpose. It would be disingenuous of me to try to describe something I don't understand (never claimed to).
c. I think it is evident that you're not making up the fact that you have lots of students and lots of positive endorsements from those students.
d. As for myself, I've ruled out total BS (based on c).

As for the pushiness thing, I think this particular forum thread has civil and enjoyable. I've learned something and I'm grateful for the well-written posts.

What I'm still withholding judgement on is the claim that this teaching is integral to "real" aikido (or "O-Sensei" aikido) but that almost nobody can teach it or do it. It just seems a bit far-fetched considering all of the great, dedicated teachers out there.

So let me re-direct the discussion. How do you know if someone is doing aikido without IP? In order to make the claim that almost nobody can teach it or do it, you either need to go around challenging everybody (which I highly doubt is what is going on) or you have to judge them based on videos or interacting with their students.

Doesn't IHTBF apply in both directions?

Thanks again for the interesting discussion.

May I be the first to say thanks for a response in kind. If you notice we are actually listening to each other and considering and not just harping on points?
Thank you also for being among the small group willing to acknowledge the wisdom of listening to the Assessment of over a thousand teachers who are voting with their feet. As I said, I cannot possibly do justice to how jaded some of these shihan are, and their incredible wealth of experience, who by no stretch of ANYONES imagination is going to be deluded. Talk about hard cases!! And many were actually against me...before becoming my students. Trust me...those were NOT fun days. Here is a quote from a Shihan at the start of a seminar. We have never met.
Me "Any questions before we begin?"
Shihan "Yes." Who the hell are you, what is this bullshit, and why should I care."
That....was the start of a seminar.
Ya....I deluded him
He is an avid and staunch supporter who has trained with me for years now and is teaching it.

The work and was it Ueshiba's work?
So here we have a body of work that people don't know.
They were unable to explain it anywhere I have read, and they were unable to translate it.
That work?
Is a staple in Koryu, Daito ryu and the Internal Chinese arts. In fact in many places he was actually quoting them.
Here is a question.
If everyone knows this Conrad? Why could they not explain it, or translate it or do it? It remained a mystery until early last year when Chris Li ( another student of mine) started to re-read Ueshiba's words in their original Japanese (mind you, I never read them before) And there he was, all but quiting me, and many other established internal principles.

You asked how we know it's not there?
Most telling
They cannot explain or teach it.
Next, it is the way they move. A connected body actually moves and functions different, and as it moves against resistance certain things happen, others do NOT happen. Knowing what those things are, can appear to be like speaking in code. However, as we teach people, they in turn go back and freak out watching so many of the greats and seeing all the failures as well. The funniest one was an extremely high level Aikikai shihan who is in charge of countries...who said to me "Oh my God students are all a mess!! Why did't I see it? Its my faults. I have to fix everyone!"
Others stand there stunned at what it feels like and they simply want to change.

Again please understand that no one...least of all me, is claiming proprietary knowledge. Yes we each have our own training regimens and ways to get people to do it. SOme of those gel better with some people, others like other methods. But no one...NO all full of themselves over this work. Instead we are all fans of it. I may be father along the path than many, but there is a crowd up ahead of me!!

The real trick is finding someone who can show you methods that work and has students that have power. Then you know you may be getting involved in a method moving you forward. There are certain teachers out there claiming to teach this stuff and they have no language for it, and no real models to follow. How is that really going to help?
I have to go train
More later