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Old 05-27-2011, 12:56 PM   #80
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
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Re: Do We Need To Invent A New Training? Yes/No/Maybe/How?

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
This is incorrect for several reasons.
First off, too many in the aiki arts keep trying to reinvent its history. The aiki arts were MMA in their day, both founders; Takeda and Ueshiba, were deeply immersed in research in all fighting methods...

Second, the way of Aiki can indeed include a method of movement that is consistent from ground to kneeling, to traditional weapons to modern weapons, from traditional jujutsu to modern MMA, all while incorporating very recognizable aiki and aiki body methods. I demonstrate this in workshops all the time. Fighting (more akin to sparring actually),in the then current modes of MMA, and taking on challenges, and controling a fight were all over the founders history, while he was actively teaching. Were he alive today , he would have been stress testing in modern arts

It is my opinion that most people in the aiki arts; (aikido and Daito ryu) do not have aiki, and do not know how to develop it. Their main focus is on external jujutsu movement, either evasive or invasive, they do not train in stress testing, both with and without weapons and as a result they have missed the mark. Thus their very real heritage of aiki, which is immensely capable, has been lost to them. This of course explains their own self doubt and realizations of the limits within their current training models.

As I stated above, Aikido and Daito ryu were once incredibly powerful arts, both based on MMA. It is our heritage. We can bring them back. Thankfully there are those that are bringing the power,- once lost- back to the art.

I look forward to the next decade and a new aikido and Daito ryu emerging, that is based on ther old founding methods, that will indeed be more capable of delivering on its promise. For the most part, I think it will be done without the Japanese at the helm. Many people will always (understandably so) want an Asian face and cultural influence on Eastern arts, which is fine. But, it is increasingly clear that the real teaching and research is being done by Westerners in the arts.
Cheers
Dan
The Aiki arts were MMA in their day? Sorry but that makes no sense to me.

That O'Sensei, Takeda Sensei et al studied in depth is unquestionable as does anyone into their do or jutsu.

MMA is the name given to a new 'martial art' promoted on t.v. isn't it? Or am I wrong there?

As I see it O'Sensei may have been open to 'challenges' or 'sparring' but these occasions were him showing or demonstrating his principles, thus the efficacy of his style or art. Nothing new there as probably all teachers of all arts are often asked to do so by members of other arts.

No doubt you have understood some aspects of Aiki and a delivery system that works. Good, in fact very good. It means no more to me or no less.

I could say it is of my opinion that most people in judo or ju arts don't have ju. Or that most people in the taichi world don't have chi. In fact I can say in my opinion that most people in the Aiki world don't have reality on Ki.

But it's a matter of what is meant by such statements.

My point is it was the same back then. The best were the ones who understood the principles of their art in theory and application. The rest were these 'most people'

Nothing new there though. Nothing amazing when put in perspective.

Now Dan, don't get me wrong here. Anyone who can spot an outness and a way of teaching those who are not only lacking it but overtly looking for it is indeed doing a good thing. That also would have happened in the past and will once again in the future. It's normal.

So if a person is already well taught and happy in their training then those people would not need to visit mma or anything else really except in the name of research if there's something they are drawn to. So from this perspective what you say can be 'right' but so can what Mary says.

In fact I guarantee some in Aikido see an outness you are not aware of that is also grounded in history and could be presented as the missing ingredient or taught in a new way more compatible for those searching for it. Some are probably already doing it.

It's all good. It's all normal or usual. It's not us and them or amazing or the manna from heaven. It's part of a whole scene and you are doing your part, well done as is Mary doing hers and others doing theirs. Hopefully we all learn from each other.

As you would say: Just sayin.

Regards.G.
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