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Old 02-06-2012, 10:00 PM   #18
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
Re: Stop My Technique?

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
From what I gathered in my very limited time training with the Seifukai, stopping technique was not so unusual there. I got shut down big time during my first practice. A lot of the time it was by people physically weaker than me so I was/am interested in "how" I got shut down. It's been a while since you were kind enough to teach me a little about the history of the Seifukai, but I was wondering if you could elaborate a little more in the light of recent discussions in the aikido community.
Past the raw beginner stage, Mochizuki's students gradually increase the resistance to make you do the technique right and to let you know if you're not doing that. There's some good shots of just that in the several clips I posted on another thread, of Washizu Sensei's gyokushin ryu aikido, which is pretty much the same as seifukai, which is pretty much the same as Mochzuki Sensei's old Shizuoka yoseikan budo.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
How does Akuzawa Sensei compare to Mochizuki Sensei? I didn't get to train with Mochizuki Sensei himself, but I did get to feel his direct students such as Sugiyama Sensei. I realise Seifukai/Yoseikan is a sogo budo but I wonder how you would compare the feeling of training with someone like Mochizuki to Akuzawa Sensei.
I couldn't compare them. Sensei was in his 80s when I was at his dojo--71 the first time I met him--and he didn't get out and do too much wild stuff. Ark is younger than I am by a good many years, and what he does is very different. But is there something inside the yoseikan techniques that is not visible? I can say that when I first met Mochizuki Sensei in Montreal in 1980, he put me in an elbow lock and I had the weird sensation that I could not move any part of my body, including the other arm, which was free. He just seemed to lock me into a whole-body lock through the elbow. But he acted as if he hadn't done anything at all and I never asked any questions about it. When I was at the dojo, a lot of those guys were much stronger than you would think, feeling how their bodies did technique, and once Kenmotsu grabbed me by both hands, two-on-two from the front, and I couldn't move in any effective way. I could move my feet and my whole body, but the point where he held me didn't move, he didn't move and I couldn't move or escape the hold. Looking at the gyokushin ryu clips, I noticed Washizu holding someone in a similar way. The guy could wriggle ineffectually, but he couldn't move.

For example, see the sixth clip down on the left side. The aite is a white belt, but if you see how Washizu holds him with very little effort and a relaxed posture, that's the kind of thing I mean. So I think they actually "had it" but they just didn't show it very overtly. I think what happened was, they would grab you like that and let you see that you couldn't move and you were supposed to say, "Sensei, how do you do that?" and maybe they would tell you and maybe they wouldn't. But since I didn't ask, no one told me and I just thought it was something you could develop just from going to classes. Definitely, though, this was not directly taught as part of technique training.

Another thing that impressed me was when Akira Tezuka, contemporary to both Washizu and Kenmotsu, sheared a makiwara post off at the floor with a low kick. I don't know exactly what happened but there was a huge heavy bag strapped to the makiwara post and I saw Tezuka looking at it and then he just suddenly did a little ankle-level kick to the heavy back and the makiwara post sheared off at the floor! Tezuka could really put it on you. He was a great person in many, many ways.

Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
What I personally want to know is, do you think the IP/aiki of Akuzawa Sensei is something that's completely absent from Mochizuki Sensei's aikido or something that simply exists on a more profound scale in Akuzawa Sensei's Aunkai Bujutsu? Or is it more complicated than that?
I guess I'd have to say it's more complicated. If they had something similar to Ark's, they didn't often show it and they didn't teach it openly, which, I think, is consistent with martial arts through history. Maybe you had to notice and ask and just keep watching more carefully and work it out for yourself, or maybe they would teach it directly if you asked. Washizu did tell me once that you can tell if someone has aiki by looking at their fingertips, but I was never able to work out exactly what he meant. I hope I someday have the chance to discuss that with him in person.

Anyway, I'm certainly glad that we have people like Dan, Ark and Mike to make us face the fact that the "art" and "technique" of aikido is quite capable of hiding very deep information and power while the practitioner appears just like everyone else.

Hope that's helpful.


Last edited by David Orange : 02-06-2012 at 10:04 PM.

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