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Old 09-25-2009, 08:28 AM   #23
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
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Re: Obama Cult of Personality

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Sure, once the regimes were established the government forced those kinds of measures. However, in the case of Lenin, Mussolini, and Hitler there was a lot of support from the progressive and union-supporting populace. You may not understand it, but at the time it was very trendy to be progressive, liberal, and socialist in Europe; American "intelligentsia" openly supported those causes. Only when the real effects came to light did everyone deny that they'd ever supported socialist and communist-related causes. There was a good book out on how many Germans supported Hitler (he was a union supporter and a socialist) and yet how many declared after the war that they'd never been taken in and it was all a mistake to think they'd gone along with it.
As those regimes established themselves, they began an insidious process of cloaking the workings of the government while eroding the rights of it's citizens. Once again Mike, This comparison is closer to the Bush administration than it is to the Obama administration. Once again Mike, this comparison is simply nonsense for many reasons.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Bush had his education department setting up lesson plans where it was suggested that children discuss Bush's past quotes? We just saw that happen with Obama, Marc. So tell me where Bush did something like that... I'm more than happy to extend the comparison about school-children, as suggested by the O.P.
Let me see, President Bush. He was the guy who fought the legislative branch in Texas as it worked on improving educational standards. When he found that his veto would be over-ridden, he signed the measure and then took credit for it. This was the same president that intentionally underfunded the "No Child Left Behind" initiative. I have yet to see any official doctrine or policy issued by the US department of education where it is advising/mandating the setting up of lesson plans that extol the current president. In absence of that, you are still trying to weave a hammock out of smoke.

Quote:
Mike Sigman wrote: View Post
Aren't they also complete deviations from the topic? Perhaps worthy of some thread other than about the "cult of personality"? C'mon... if you're going to debate an issue, you can't drag in extraneous issues, trivialize other posters, etc. No fair! Good point. Can you point me to your posts on the same pettinesses during the Bush administration? Trust me, I was not a Bush lover. I thought at best he was middle-manager material who would at least attempt to surround himself with various experts in domestic and foreign policy. However, when it came to the soft-white Gore, raised in a suite at the Ritz-Carlton out near the beltway, or the Kerry guy who even Ted Kennedy called a phoney, I guess Bush was the lesser of two evils. With Obama, I think the Left has made a worse bet than they did with Carter and it will cost them even more or it will cause a civil war with the sophomoric 1970's college-campus idealism/socialism. I'm sorta bemusedly waiting to see what happens.

Notice not once did I make a reference to you or your personal beliefs or say "pathetic", etc. I don't debate like that.

Best.

Mike
Thank you for your history lessons, simply a passive-aggressive attack on your part. You want me try and debate about a topic that is ludicrous at best?

I think that my accountant put it best when he said that he was voting for Bush because Gore was an A-Hole and thought that he knew everything. Bush was an idiot who realized that he was an idiot and surrounded himself by smart people. Interesting summary. Kerry and Bush were BOTH silver-spoon children. At least Kerry served in Nam rather than hiding in the south abusing drugs. At least Kerry was intelligent. Bush associated himself with two people who to me, seem to represent the highest levels of sociopathy and evil-> Cheney and Rove.

In my own opinion, the Obama aura has more to do with him being the first African-American President. I take a much more benign view of this process than you do. I frankly never thought that this would happen in my lifetime and I am happy that it did happen. He is a sterling role model for a set of communities that deserve better role models that genuinely give back to their communities.

I am taking a wait-and-see approach for this administration. So far, much better than President Carter and that is not saying much at all. Compare that to an eight year presidency that may very well be the WORST in modern history (Bush Administration by the way). Destroying the economy, military, politicizing government to unheard of levels, undermining civil rights, selling out it's citizens to big business.... The list went on and on.

I wrote posts about what I considered to be wrong-doings and illegal activities during the Bush administration. You can be sure that if the current administration starts to reach the levels of the past administration, I will be writing about that too. I have clearly stated on many occasions that I consider both political parties to be irreparably corrupted. President Obama is part of one of those corrupted "machines." I just happen to think that he is a better thinker than President Bush and Senator McCain are. His ideas have been corrupted by the "machine" like presidents before him and after him.

The main reason that I typically support Democrats is that the difference that I see between the parties has to do with how they view the "weakest link in the chain." I would rather see us strengthen the weakest links (typically democrats) rather than strengthen the strongest links (typically republicans). This whole issue revolves around the redistribution of wealth. When it flows upwards, the "right" does not seem to care. When it flows downwards, the "right" suddenly seems to care and calls it socialism.

From my perspective, I would prefer that we start with a clean slate based upon the following two conditions: 1) Government funds any and all political campaigns equally. No forms of contributions outside of the government should be allowed. 2) All forms of political contributions and lobbying will be considered to be what they really are- bribery and influence peddling. If it occurs, both sides go to prison. Just imagine what our country would be like if the politicians were actually beholden to the citizens and not the big businesses, organizations (big labor included)...... Unfortunately, I do not hold out much hope. This is particularly the case where the Supreme Court (of jesters?), particularly those who advocate for a strict adherence to the founding documents, some how find non-citizen entities (corporations, pacs....) entitled to the right to influence peddling/bribery-> oh sorry, Free Speech!

Regards,

Marc Abrams