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Old 09-19-2014, 01:42 AM   #486
Chris Li
 
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Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Re: Demonstrating aiki, demontrating aikido.Same thing ?

Quote:
Gavin Slater wrote: View Post
The 'aiki-in-yo-ho' is not something that is expressly taught. Its not like hey guys come over here and we will do some aiki-in-yo-ho. It is something you live and you have to work out yourself.

If you look at what Amatsu Sensei said 'Samurai did not do solo training, they always trained with their teacher. Solo training is a more modern approach created for women and children'. That is something you have to work out.

Judo had solo training, If you look at basic things like shizentai, that is the foundation of everything in judo.
I've certainly seen Aiki-in-yo-ho taught expressly in at least two lines of Daito-ryu, that may not be true for your line of Daito-ryu.

I think that any argument that starts with "the Samurai did XXX" is going to be problematic - the samurai arts are hardly monolithic, and vary greatly from ryu-ha to ryu-ha.

If you look at what Toby Threadgill said:

Quote:
Toby Threadgill wrote:
Concerning "internal power," this concept is likewise difficult to strictly define. There are as many definitions of this concept as there are schools claiming to teach it. In TSYR we have a series of kata called "Nairiki no Gyo." These kata seek to cultivate specific body skills associated with developing internal energy. But what exactly are these skills and how are these kata employed to develop internal strength? As part of our gokui, I am not permitted to discuss them in detail outside the kai membership but I can give you a general idea of what they constitute. They are solo exercises that inculcate the proper balance, movement and muscular application utilized in our greater curriculum. These types of exercises are actually quite ubiquitous in Japanese jujutsu schools of the Edo Period, although they are rather unfamiliar to those outside the membership of specific Nihon koryu. According to Yoshin ryu lore, this form of body training was introduced to Japan from China in the mid-Edo Period. In the case of Yoshin ryu, the Nairiki no Gyo were specifically created adaptations of Chinese practices intended to augment the study and application of specific body skills required in Yoshin ryu's greater curriculum.
Then it's clear that Amatsu's argument fails, since at least one samurai art did indeed contain solo training. If you believe Toby's statement that such training was "actually quite ubiquitous in Japanese jujutsu schools of the Edo Period", then it was present in much more than one samurai art. Even if it's not "ubiquitous", its documented existence in even one art proves the case that such training was not unknown.

It's really a tossup whether or not one considers Daito-ryu to be a samurai art at all, a very good argument can be made that it is the modern creation of Sokaku Takeda (based on older sources, of course), who was nine years old when the samurai era ended.

I'm not sure what the excitement is about here. We solo train, we also do pair training (quite a lot). Everybody that I am aware of in the IP "crowd" does both. If you don't like solo training and don't think it's necessary - then don't do it, and good luck with that. What's the problem?

Best,

Chris

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